IS 2D fighting dead, or just dying?

Kyosuke Kagami · Post by **Kyosuke Kagami** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 09:56

why would I like interactive crap, when the rest of the game feels like "huh..."?

Sheba · Post by **Sheba** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 10:50

Fuck tekken, seriously. 4/5 of the character roster look like they just got out of 50 years in prison. I'd rather have my bishoujo sipping tea with a blanka wannabe who is arm wrestling with a Zangief, while hearing the random bishfag gackt reject having a lover quarrel with the boring karateka male lead. And a milf maid peeking from a cardboard box.

Fuu · Post by **Fuu** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 11:01

Kyosuke Kagami wrote:why would I like interactive crap, when the rest of the game feels like "huh..."?

Yes but whatever tentative of innovation in T4 was abandoned in T5. I know the fanbase was happy with that but i liked how the stages in T4 were structured, it was a good start for something new. T5 is same old same old in that department.

Sheba wrote:Fuck tekken, seriously. 4/5 of the character roster look like they just got out of 50 years in prison. I'd rather have my bishoujo sipping tea with a blanka wannabe who is arm wrestling with a Zangief, while hearing the random bishfag gackt reject having a lover quarrel with the boring karateka male lead. And a milf maid peeking from a cardboard box.

Blame the time shift in T3! Also bad designers!

Kyosuke Kagami · Post by **Kyosuke Kagami** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 11:11

hey, I like Steve Fox

and Xiao

and I insist: innovation means shit if the final result is "huh...". I'd rather see an "old formula being well-executed and improved". And that's why I liked SC2 but I kinda got dissapointed with SC3

Sheba · Post by **Sheba** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 11:17

Seriously, I don't feel that 3D fighting game would achieve the charm achieved by the 2D ones. I love the stereotypical designs yet solid movesets of the SF cast, I liked KoF, at its prime, and GG because the characters drew me to them and urged me to grab the controller.
I like my fireball trap, I liked the time when I tried to get around the shoto trap, I enjoyed the outrageous joystick motions for my moves, my funky roman/super/dream cancels, dashing and air dashing all over the place, high-low and OTG whoring, walk-in tick throw and many things.
Some 3d games may have those, but it doesn't have the same charm as a 2D one.

That's like trying to compare an anime to a live action series, it just doesn't have the same charm, or flavor.

Post by **SonicTempest** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 11:17

IRC is love.

(03:51:37) <Reiji_Mitsurugi> LOL @ Sheba's comments on Tekken
(03:51:44) <Reiji_Mitsurugi> because I actually agree with him
(03:56:38) <Tamao_S|shower> :o
(03:56:57) * Tamao_S|shower is now known as Tamao_S|PizzaInOven
(03:57:17) <Reiji_Mitsurugi> srsly
(03:57:52) <Reiji_Mitsurugi> 80% of Tekken's cast can be described by "buff half-naked man with angry face"
(03:58:03) <Tamao_S|PizzaInOven> yeah :(
(03:58:17) <Tamao_S|PizzaInOven> they all have that D:< face
(03:58:36) <Tamao_S|PizzaInOven> if I wanted to play with such chars, I'll play HnK
(03:58:38) <Blyss> lol
(03:58:45) <Tamao_S|PizzaInOven> at least, they have mullet
(03:58:50) <Tamao_S|PizzaInOven> and outrageous moves
(03:58:54) <Tamao_S|PizzaInOven> and Jesus
(03:59:07) <Blyss> but there's Xiaoyu and Asuka and Lily!
(04:00:42) <Reiji_Mitsurugi> they're the exception rather than the rule :p
(04:00:56) <Blyss> there's DOA then =p
(04:01:05) <Blyss> if you don't like tekken
(04:01:11) <Reiji_Mitsurugi> DoA characters are even more boring
(04:01:12) <Blyss> =pppppppp
(04:01:16) <Blyss> lol
(04:01:32) <Tamao_S|PizzaInOven> DoA fights can be summed up by
(04:01:41) <Reiji_Mitsurugi> VF has had some nice designs as of late but it utterly fails at characterisation
(04:01:42) <Blyss> which series is shiby talking about btw?
(04:01:49) <Tamao_S|PizzaInOven> *hit kick* *oops pantsu tehehehehehe ^.^*

Persona · Post by **Persona** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 11:27

Kyosuke Kagami wrote:why would I like interactive crap, when the rest of the game feels like "huh..."?

Because you're either a graphics whore or/and a fanboy!

Post by **Gunsmith** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 11:45

old skool can't handle new skool

new skool 2d caters for pedos, that's why P is still playing

PenPen · Post by **PenPen** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 15:10

The funny thing here at HK is that wherever I go, I don't see a lot of Tekken, Soul Calibur and the such and every arcade is filled with KOF 2002, 98, and maybe KOF2k, with KOF XI somewhere at the end of the pack. Yeah, they don't really give a damn about anything that's not 98 or 2k2.

I just find this strangely odd with what I experienced in Austin where you need things in three dee to survive and any 2D games are mostly left alone to rot except for a select few guys who are still playing the game, plus some guys who has nothing to do and mash buttons in KOF pretending he's good.

Kyosuke Kagami · Post by **Kyosuke Kagami** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 18:05

Persona wrote:
Kyosuke Kagami wrote:why would I like interactive crap, when the rest of the game feels like "huh..."?
Because you're either a graphics whore or/and a fanboy!

What do graphics have to do with it? o_o I'm focusing my comment on gameplay.

If we have to talk about my favorite 3D fighter, that'd be Virtua Fighter (except 3 because it's stupid).

KoFFreaK · Post by **KoFFreaK** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 20:01

Well my area is still good. The last tournament held a couple weeks ago attracted a lot of people from ensenada and mexicali, so its something to consider. Out of all the tourneys in that event, kof 2k2 had the most people, with MvC2 second...after that its SSBM, Halo 2, and a couple more...

But yeah, when I go to tilts in san diego, its all about MvC2 x__x. I just cant help it and kick some ass with the broken servbot!.(sometimes

)

Post by **SonicTempest** » Sat Dec 02, 2006 04:56

To bring the discussion back to its original path :-

Is 2D fighting dead? This, of course, depends on your definition of "dead." IMO, if a genre still has games actively being produced and played in some part of the world, it is not dead. Ergo, I don't think 2D fighting as a genre is dead quite yet, although it is impossible to deny that outside certain regions their appeal has diminished.

If anything, the fact that developers like SNKP, Arc System Works and Yuki continue to put out 2D fighting titles on a regular basis indicates to me that the genre is far from dead. I also think that since the market for such fighters is small, and the people who tend to play them have "seen it all" in terms of gameplay mechanics and the like, it'll force these companies to come up with new ways to make their games stand out, which is good for just about any 2D fighting fan.

Kyosuke Kagami · Post by **Kyosuke Kagami** » Sat Dec 02, 2006 06:10

SNKP

Thanks to them, the general public thinks 2D fighters are outdated and antique. Sorry, but they're not a good example.

BP · Post by BP » Sat Dec 02, 2006 06:11

Heh, no offense, but if I go by overgeneralizing alone then I can also say 4/5ths of Guilty Gear's cast look like they came out of a futuristic circus freakshow and 80% of KoF's cast can be described as "angsty flame throwing pretty boys" - when in actual fact, it's barely true at all for either case.

Y'know, overgeneralizing might be one of the problems that caused the death of 2D fighters. If people actually gave a crap and bothered with the game or even knowing about it properly (the 'i dun have time/money!' excuse doesn't really cut it), you wouldn't see people doing stuff like...oh you know, abandon a whole genre of fighting games.

People overgeneralize 2D fighting as "old", "kiddie/otaku stuff" or "not new/3D" without even knowing jack about the game itself, nor have they even bothered trying it. Thus, with people imitating the rest in this type of behaviour, you'd see less and less people actually interested in the product itself (even if it is good) and in turn causing the genre to dwindle into a mere obscurity. It can go the other way, too, like how 2D zealots dread (and still dread) the fact that it's possible to make 2D work in 3D and overgeneralize that as equivalent to crap, or not even giving fully 3D games a chance (though that seems considerably less than anti-2d people).

How hard is it to actually know or even think at the possiblity of actually enjoying the game itself, I wonder? Isn't that what a game is actually supposed to do - provide entertainment? Looks are just one thing, but if it's everything to a person - then they're better off looking at an art gallery, not play a videogame.

Anyway, about 3D vs 2D debate; 3D games can have whatever system technicality you can even think of, just as much as a 2D game can. It all depends on what the developers have or intend to do in mind. That goes double for characters and their accompanying personalities.

Before, you could say that 3D models can't express feelings/emotion or have a personality, but as technology went forwards, this has aspect has frequently improved.

In the end, it's just a look change after all. Polygons vs art, motion capture vs animation - just different means to reach the same goal - creating a competable, entertaining fighting game. Some people may have their preferences for liking one than the other, and that's all fine and dandy.

But if you take a fighting game with the game engine designed already in mind, with their respective characters and their quips/traits that you might want to show off - the difference in presenting it in either 3D or 2D just lies in the graphics.

As long as the game delivers, then it's all good, right?

Blake B · Post by **Blake B** » Sat Dec 02, 2006 06:37

Well spoken, BP, but the question i'm trying to answer is within 2D fighters. Fuck 3D fighters, the only 3d fighters i enjoy is the SC series & the Virtua Fighter series...and prehaps bloody roar too, but that's about it.

It's just that people are just starting to forget about 2D fighting, because nowadays folks want all this realistic, 3d graphic shit in their fighters. Is it wrong for them to want such things? Not really.....but in the process, alot of developers are beleiving that 2D fighting is in the past, and 3d is the wave of the future.....that's why you see all those "collection" shit from capcom of their 2D fighters when they know damn well they can put out an original fighter out there in 2D, SNKP is doing the same shit too!!
I would write more, but i believe i'm getting a bit overboard....