Ramon (XI)

[Perfect Stranger]

{Damn, lost my old account somehow}

Off topic, but I remember you from the old boards. Did you re-register since ON switched to this new board system? The old account records didn't carry over.

[Iie-Kyo]

So you're saying it's pointless to even bother do the extra inputs? But the oh-ah factor does so much psychological damage it's worth it ;)

{Damn, lost my old account somehow}

Incorrect. It does MORE damage if you add the inputs. I just tested this in XI PS2 in BOTH Arcade and Arrange mode (in fact, Ramon's extra throws in Arrange Mode does MORE damage than the Arcade Mode version - balance ftw).

But even if it did less damage, I'd do it for the psychological damage myself. ;)

Oh yeah, for those of you who are confused about the inputs. This is actually one of those few times keyboard notation helps.

If you're facing right and you nail your opponent with the LDM, the inputs you do are easy:

214 + E for the first grab
214 + E for the second grab
63214 + E for the third grab

Simply reverse if you nail 'em with the LDM facing left: 236 + E, 236 + E, 41236 + E

Essentially the input if you look at it from a keyboard notation view is actually pretty much the same.

[Kane317]

Off topic, but I remember you from the old boards. Did you re-register since ON switched to this new board system? The old account records didn't carry over.

{still off topic}
Yeah, I remember all of you guys too. I dunno what name I've gone by, **-+=Daimon=+-** is one of them I think. I'm from the good ole days, back when Gunsmith used to go on kofmailing lists as well... speaking of which, I haven't really talked to him since I met up with him back in 2002 when I was still in London...is he still around?
{on topic}

Incorrect. It does MORE damage if you add the inputs. I just tested this in XI PS2 in BOTH Arcade and Arrange mode (in fact, Ramon's extra throws in Arrange Mode does MORE damage than the Arcade Mode version - balance ftw).

But even if it did less damage, I'd do it for the psychological damage myself. ;)

Oh yeah, for those of you who are confused about the inputs. This is actually one of those few times keyboard notation helps.

If you're facing right and you nail your opponent with the LDM, the inputs you do are easy:

214 + E for the first grab
214 + E for the second grab
63214 + E for the third grab

Simply reverse if you nail 'em with the LDM facing left: 236 + E, 236 + E, 41236 + E

Essentially the input if you look at it from a keyboard notation view is actually pretty much the same.

Yeah, it's pretty much hcbx2+E LDM then: QCB+E, QCB+E, HCB+E.

The only one that the system is particular about is, the FIRST follow-up, the rest can be inputed any direction.

[Ghostpilot]

Figured I'd add my Ramon findings that I haven't noticed yet in the thread.

After his Rolling Sobat chain, Ramon can buffer his qcb+A (and possibly C) along with his Tiger Load.

So it's possible to follow up the dropkick after the dd+C pickup.

I don't currently have my PS2 at the moment to double-check this (friend is borrowing it to play Suikoden V) but I don't think you can free cancel his supers from an unbuffered df+B anymore.

Also Ramon's specials have the nice quality if not being able to be Saving Shifted by the opponent, which helps him a lot with the extremely low damage he has this year.

His qcb, hcf+K losing much of its invincibility hurts his limited defense capabilities (it made for a great AA), so he has to rely on his Tiger Neck Chancery more than ever.

On one hand, I welcome the changes to the Tiger Load, but on the other I cringe.

Pluses over the 2k2 Tiger Load:

1. No more false-positive Tiger Loads (when Ramon would jump towards the wall, but not off of it).

2. More options, especially when the Tiger Load follow-up command was missed.


Minuses over the 2k2 Tiger Load:

1. Angles, ranges, and speed is fixed now. In 2k2 it would automatically vary depending on opponent's placement. Because of this, the unblockable qcf+P follow-up isn't the be-all, end-all follow up it used to be, but it makes the other follow-ups viable options.

2. The cancel is much slower than it used to be. And no longer registers an overhead booty-bash hit.

3. The timing for the followup command is -incredibly- unforgiving. Especially if you're close to the wall.

4. Potentially has less priority than before.

Even with his animation / move property changes, Ramon could still be a good character if it wasn't for his low damage potential. He's literally beaten to death when it comes to damage scaling.

[Kane317]

Minuses over the 2k2 Tiger Load:

...

3. The timing for the followup command is -incredibly- unforgiving. Especially if you're close to the wall.

The only one solution to the strict timing required for his wall DM, is to pre-buffer it in his qcb+K. Meaning, if Ramon's BACK is NEAR the wall:

qcb+K ==> hcf+E should execute the DM automatically. Tested.

[Ghostpilot]

Minuses over the 2k2 Tiger Load:

...

3. The timing for the followup command is -incredibly- unforgiving. Especially if you're close to the wall.

The only one solution to the strict timing required for his wall DM, is to pre-buffer it in his qcb+K. Meaning, if Ramon's BACK is NEAR the wall:

qcb+K ==> hcf+E should execute the DM automatically. Tested.

Oh I didn't mean the DM, I meant the follow-ups to the special itself. All this talk of XI is really making me want to get my ps2 back...not that I have anyone here to play XI against anyway.

[SonicWaver]

i dont know about u, but im just f*ing gallore repeating d. D into qcb+C and again and again and again...and then when opp just still blocks low, simple LDM.


im surprised.

[Empyrian]

Apparently XI's hardest single character combo is this.
Jump C, (C, qcb C)*3, C, df b, qcb A.

Ramon's frame data.
通常技

A,B（近、遠、屈）…全部5F
近C…6F　　遠C…8F　　屈C…7F
近D…8F　　遠D…15F　　屈D…13F
E…17F


特殊技

ﾍｯﾄﾞﾊﾞｯﾄ…21F
低空ﾄﾞﾛｯﾌﾟｷｯｸ…19F


必殺技

ﾛｰﾘﾝｸﾞｿﾊﾞｯﾄ　B…18F　　D…25F
ﾌｪｲﾝﾄｽﾃｯﾌﾟ　A…18F
ﾀｲｶﾞｰﾈｯｸﾁｬﾝｽﾘｰ　A,C…1F
ｻﾏｰｿﾙﾄ　B,D…10F
ﾛｰﾌﾟ振り…9F


超必殺技

ﾀｲｶﾞｰｽﾋﾟﾝ　A,C…1F
ｴﾙ･ﾃﾞｨｱﾌﾞﾛ･ｱﾏﾘﾛ･ﾗﾓﾝ　B…8F　　D…10F


リーダー超必殺技

ﾀｲｶﾞｰｺﾝﾋﾞﾈｰｼｮﾝ…1F

I can understand the part on normal moves, command moves and DMs moves but I need help in translating his special moves. XD

Normal moves.
A and B (close, far and crouching) = 5F.
Close C = 6F , Far C = 8F and Crouch C = 7F
Close D = 8F, Far D = 15F and Crouch D = 13F
E = 17F
F+A = 21F
Df B = 19F

Grab super = 1F. same goes for his LDM. (duh.)
Ranbu. B version = 8F, D version = 10F.

[SonicTempest]

Translated:

Command Moves

Headbutt (f+A) …21F
Drop Kick (df+B) …19F


Special Moves

Rolling Sobat (dp+K)　B…18F　　D…25F
Feint Step (QCB+A)　A…18F
Tiger Neck Chancery (HCF+P)　A,C…1F
Somersault (d,d+K)　B,D…10F
Rope Throw (rdp+K?) …9F


DMs

Tiger Spin (HCBx2 + P)　A,C…1F
El Diablo Amarillo Ramon (QCF,HCB+K) B…8F　　D…10F


LDM

Tiger Combination…1F