KOF XIII System Discussion Thread

[Dark_Chaotix]

Kane317 from DC

They are still there as they were intended to be in the game and are made reference to in the Mook. The roll cancel HD was kinda left field.

---
Interesting discovery on the mechanics of HD bypass (Thanks to Ash for helping me pinpoint what exactly it was was):

-When doing light hit chains into HD, e.g d.B x2, s.B, HD here are the conditions--
1) if you press BC as soon as the s.B hits (early), it'll cause your player to activate HD but auto dash forward so you have to press s.C/D manually.
2) if you press BC a little delayed (late), it'll cause your player to do a s.C

Basically, if you just wanna do d.B, s.A, HD (s.C), --> hit the BC slightly delayed but if you're activating off a far poke like Shen, Iori, Vice etc...you'd want to auto-dash and hence press the BC as early as possible.

---
UPDATE:
Same mechanics apply with strong hits. So s.C, (slight delay) BC yields-->
s.C, BC, s.C (one less input)

[Kane317]

Kane317 from DC

They are still there as they were intended to be in the game and are made reference to in the Mook. The roll cancel HD was kinda left field.

---
Interesting discovery on the mechanics of HD bypass (Thanks to Ash for helping me pinpoint what exactly it was was):

-When doing light hit chains into HD, e.g d.B x2, s.B, HD here are the conditions--
1) if you press BC as soon as the s.B hits (early), it'll cause your player to activate HD but auto dash forward so you have to press s.C/D manually.
2) if you press BC a little delayed (late), it'll cause your player to do a s.C

Basically, if you just wanna do d.B, s.A, HD (s.C), --> hit the BC slightly delayed but if you're activating off a far poke like Shen, Iori, Vice etc...you'd want to auto-dash and hence press the BC as early as possible.

---
UPDATE:
Same mechanics apply with strong hits. So s.C, (slight delay) BC yields-->
s.C, BC, s.C (one less input)

I wanted to add something that helped with my timing (as I'm rhythmically challenged heh).  The timing for light hits into a delayed BC (s.C) is really like the timing for chaining light attacks.  e.g.  Use the timing for anyone's d.B, s.B, s.B for:
d.B, s.B, BC and it'll do -->
d.B, s.B, HD+s.C.

The concept is no different for strong attacks, s.C, BC, s.C however since strong attacks are slower to come out you can't really do it the same speed as the light attacks.  One way I think of it, is pretending that two s.C chain one after another so I press it visually.  Another way you can think of it, press the BC as soon as the window for canceling the s.C, has passed.

Once again, if you have no problem doing the 2k2 BC links then you can ignore all my tips since you can always auto-dash, and manually hit the s.C.

[Dark_Chaotix]

Ah thanks for that. I dont have a problem with dashing and to me personally i think its still something that should be done (to keep 2k2um and XIII aligned).

I guess its a matter of trying the game and learning it.

[Kane317]

Ah thanks for that. I dont have a problem with dashing and to me personally i think its still something that should be done (to keep 2k2um and XIII aligned).

I guess its a matter of trying the game and learning it.

Although I like seeing tradition being kept, and normally I don't agree on making the game too easy (simplifying SNK motions over the years) but I think this time it really helps with the balance. In the old 2k2, certain characters obviously benefited from the BC combos a lot more than others and on top of that I remember some characters could really do s.C, BC, s.C while others had to s.C, BC, dash s.C (maybe my memory fails me). In XIII, the auto-dash and the Ex really level the playing field making the entire cast interesting and more importantly, competitive.

[Dark_Chaotix]

I wasnt talking about the auto dash or comparing characters that dont need to dash to the ones that do. I was more talking about the fact that I would dash regardless of character or combo because it keeps it mainstream with 2k2um. If i let auto dash happen in XIII and try to play 2k2um again, I would fail and get myself confused.

I do agree tho that xiii has made every character versatile in HD then 2k2um MM. There are still some characters that dont really benefit from MM and yeah just ruins the experience sometimes.

[Kane317]

If i let auto dash happen in XIII and try to play 2k2um again, I would fail and get myself confused.

OT: There's the problem, , why would you? All joking aside, 2K2UM is a great game and I did prolly spend 60+ hours on the ps2 the first week and a tiny bit at AI but overall after XIII, there's no going back, you won't want to. None of the regulars here play 2k2UM anymore (not in the tradition sense at least) and they all played more than me. XIII is just that awesome.

EDIT: By coincidence, here's the Professor talking about XIII and BB over at mmcafe.

They're both good! BB has more moves, XIII has more subtle animations (like Andy fixing his hair after an attack, Mai's chest bouncing after a landing, etc). The resize and filtering makes the sprites a little blurry, but just good enough. You'll never be able to go back to the older KOF graphics again.

Had to highlight the last sentence

[Dark_Chaotix]

Well you shouldnt put me in the same boat as the general kof players because I know i will still play 2k2um regardless of how good xiii is. It has nothing to do with the graphics or gameplay at all. And again because of that reason, I would still do manual dash in combos.

Kof 2k2/um will always be dear to me.

[DarkDreamT2]

I'd play 2k2UM for Yamazaki and Boss God Rape Spamming Fun Death. Other than that, XIII all day.

[Gunsmith]

Prof mentioned something about stick men.

Funnily enough, after playing XII for a while, I walked past a KOF and I was shocked at how bad the graphics looked in comparison. It was like lego fighter.

2k2um has Shermie, but...er... well I'll play 2k2um until XIII arrives at my house.

[Kane317]

Prof mentioned something about stick men.

Funnily enough, after playing XII for a while, I walked past a KOF and I was shocked at how bad the graphics looked in comparison. It was like lego fighter.

2k2um has Shermie, but...er... well I'll play 2k2um until XIII arrives at my house.

OT: Deviating as usual, but to add to this: A couple years ago I was trying to get my buddy (who plays other FG) into KOF (think it was 2k1 or 2k2, can't remember). I was explaining the mechanics and when he saw Kyo he was like..."that doesn't even look real (referring to his K.K) and the graphics looks like it's from the 90s." Course I disagreed with him persistantly and did my best to plead for KOF (he didn't end up picking it up). Fast forward to now, after playing XIII, when I walk past the 2k2 machine it looks SO weird. I can't imagine how we put up with the graphics for 14-15 years .

---
To keep this on topic, interesting shortcut in XIII that I'm unaware if is in the older ones (I don't think so): any motion can be performed ~f. Initial reports of it came after the game was released for a couple weeks but I was sure it was a mistake and people did ~f~df; since then I forgot about until testing it today. Sure enough, it works.

Why is this significant? Well 1) it helps with Chin's stupid overlaps with +P and +P (why it overlaps I dunno why, but it does I promise you) and 2) if you're trying to drive cancel K's +A --> +C it comes in handy (otherwise you get x2+P).

There is another general shortcut but only works if both specials are the same button (two Cs etc): +C (hold C), f and that's it (kinda like Leona's charge ~ub+P (hold P) does her Moon Slasher --> [DC] Baltic Launcher).

[The Master]

Prof mentioned something about stick men.

Funnily enough, after playing XII for a while, I walked past a KOF and I was shocked at how bad the graphics looked in comparison. It was like lego fighter.

2k2um has Shermie, but...er... well I'll play 2k2um until XIII arrives at my house.

OT: Deviating as usual, but to add to this: A couple years ago I was trying to get my buddy (who plays other FG) into KOF (think it was 2k1 or 2k2, can't remember). I was explaining the mechanics and when he saw Kyo he was like..."that doesn't even look real (referring to his K.K) and the graphics looks like it's from the 90s." Course I disagreed with him persistantly and did my best to plead for KOF (he didn't end up picking it up). Fast forward to now, after playing XIII, when I walk past the 2k2 machine it looks SO weird. I can't imagine how we put up with the graphics for 14-15 years .

---
To keep this on topic, interesting shortcut in XIII that I'm unaware if is in the older ones (I don't think so): any motion can be performed ~f. Initial reports of it came after the game was released for a couple weeks but I was sure it was a mistake and people did ~f~df; since then I forgot about until testing it today. Sure enough, it works.

Why is this significant? Well 1) it helps with Chin's stupid overlaps with +P and +P (why it overlaps I dunno why, but it does I promise you) and 2) if you're trying to drive cancel K's +A --> +C it comes in handy (otherwise you get x2+P).

There is another general shortcut but only works if both specials are the same button (two Cs etc): +C (hold C), f and that's it (kinda like Leona's charge ~ub+P (hold P) does her Moon Slasher --> [DC] Baltic Launcher).

we loved it because it was light years ahead of everything that was out there at the time..

[Robocop Two]

A system question thing about combos and teching in this game.

After being hit by certain moves characters will go into a stomach crumple animation (Ralf EX gut punch, Raiden EX breath, Shen Woo Punch full charge etc.) now I have seen normals hit after this and they launch the opponent but what I want to ask is does this first hit let the opponent tech?

Second question, I know that command normals (well the ones I'm interested in) don't seem to allow the opponent to tech so if you launch an opponent and then hit with a command normal you can 2-in-1 into a special to eek out a bit more damage. Now if you get a crumple before and the normal you use to hit the opponent doesn't tech them would I be right in thinking that the the command normal won't and the special won't either?

Third question, when some one does tech in a combo and then they are still hit by a super (like Elizabeth can) how does this affect damage scaling?

Last question is what specials, EX moves and everything else can catch tech's? There was a French video done recently where a guy was using Takuma and did the stand EX kick in the corner into B kick into a second B kick but instead of going straight for the multi-punch special he did C (the opponent teched) and he 2-in-1 into the EX version of the multi-punch and it took them out of the air and continued the combo meter. What I want to know is what can or can not catch? What can each character do with the reset situation and meter?

Thanks for your time guys

[Toxic Avanger]

A system question thing about combos and teching in this game.

After being hit by certain moves characters will go into a stomach crumple animation (Ralf EX gut punch, Raiden EX breath, Shen Woo Punch full charge etc.) now I have seen normals hit after this and they launch the opponent but what I want to ask is does this first hit let the opponent tech?

No, you can't input recoveries on the stunned animation. You can only fall to the ground naturally and then get up.

Third question, when some one does tech in a combo and then they are still hit by a super (like Elizabeth can) how does this affect damage scaling?

Scaling works with the combo counter. As long as the combo counter keeps increasing, the scaling will do so as well.

Last question is what specials, EX moves and everything else can catch tech's? There was a French video done recently where a guy was using Takuma and did the stand EX kick in the corner into B kick into a second B kick but instead of going straight for the multi-punch special he did C (the opponent teched) and he 2-in-1 into the EX version of the multi-punch and it took them out of the air and continued the combo meter. What I want to know is what can or can not catch? What can each character do with the reset situation and meter?

The list is way too large, and pretty much most of them where listed on Sonic Tempest blog translations.

[Robocop Two]

A system question thing about combos and teching in this game.

After being hit by certain moves characters will go into a stomach crumple animation (Ralf EX gut punch, Raiden EX breath, Shen Woo Punch full charge etc.) now I have seen normals hit after this and they launch the opponent but what I want to ask is does this first hit let the opponent tech?

No, you can't input recoveries on the stunned animation. You can only fall to the ground naturally and then get up.

Sorry, I think I wrote that badly, I meant the first hit after the crumple. So if I were to do +A+C with Ralf, it hits and crumples the opponent, and then I do C (1 hit), d/f+A would the opponent tech in between the C and d/f+A or would it combo? If it doesn't combo then I know I need to just go straight into command normals after a crumple stun.

Third question, when some one does tech in a combo and then they are still hit by a super (like Elizabeth can) how does this affect damage scaling?

Scaling works with the combo counter. As long as the combo counter keeps increasing, the scaling will do so as well.

Cheers, thanks for that one, been wondering that for a while now.

Last question is what specials, EX moves and everything else can catch tech's? There was a French video done recently where a guy was using Takuma and did the stand EX kick in the corner into B kick into a second B kick but instead of going straight for the multi-punch special he did C (the opponent teched) and he 2-in-1 into the EX version of the multi-punch and it took them out of the air and continued the combo meter. What I want to know is what can or can not catch? What can each character do with the reset situation and meter?

The list is way too large, and pretty much most of them where listed on Sonic Tempest blog translations.

Could you direct me to that blog then? it would be greatly useful for myself
Thanks again for all those answers!!!!

[Toxic Avanger]

A system question thing about combos and teching in this game.

After being hit by certain moves characters will go into a stomach crumple animation (Ralf EX gut punch, Raiden EX breath, Shen Woo Punch full charge etc.) now I have seen normals hit after this and they launch the opponent but what I want to ask is does this first hit let the opponent tech?

No, you can't input recoveries on the stunned animation. You can only fall to the ground naturally and then get up.

Sorry, I think I wrote that badly, I meant the first hit after the crumple. So if I were to do +A+C with Ralf, it hits and crumples the opponent, and then I do C (1 hit), d/f+A would the opponent tech in between the C and d/f+A or would it combo? If it doesn't combo then I know I need to just go straight into command normals after a crumple stun.

For all effects and uses, the crumple stun animation works just as an air knock down.... For example's sake, let's use Kyo's Qcf + D. Ralf doing normal attack and then following up is just as impossible as Kyo doing jab and uppercut after his kicks, since normal attacks don't leave the enemy open for further damage if the enemy is airbone and the characters like an OTG.

And, just like Kyo In order for Ralf to do something more than 1 hit after the stun he needs to use a special move that leaves the enemy open. (In Ralf's case, that's + C). Now, while it is known that he can do long combos with HD cancels and in the corner, it's unknown if he can do decent things outside the corner and in the middle of the stage.

Last question is what specials, EX moves and everything else can catch tech's? There was a French video done recently where a guy was using Takuma and did the stand EX kick in the corner into B kick into a second B kick but instead of going straight for the multi-punch special he did C (the opponent teched) and he 2-in-1 into the EX version of the multi-punch and it took them out of the air and continued the combo meter. What I want to know is what can or can not catch? What can each character do with the reset situation and meter?

The list is way too large, and pretty much most of them where listed on Sonic Tempest blog translations.

Could you direct me to that blog then? it would be greatly useful for myself
Thanks again for all those answers!!!!

As far as I know, Sonic Tempest hasn't added the translations to his blog, he did the blog translations for the site and posted them in the news thread of the game starting here. Considering how the blog entries were weekly or something like that, you'll have to skirmish through some replies in order to fetch the contents.

.... Perhaps some kind soul should compile all of those translations in one topic and make it a sticky or something? Well, I know that I'm not kind, and I haven't technically stopped drinking from newyears, so that won't be me, at least for a while.