Wiki vs Forums

Guides / FAQs / Tutorials with Videos per character for Tougeki Arcade/ 360, Ps2 and Neogeo

Best thing to do with 2k2um info?

Discuss here then edit DC wiki
7
41%
C&P wiki info into each ON forum thread
0
No votes
Set up ON wiki again and create a mirror (ask them mirror us too)
4
24%
Let's all go to 360 Live Forums!
0
No votes
Wikis are better than forums
2
12%
Forums are better than wikis
4
24%
 
Total votes: 17

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Wiki vs Forums

Post by Gunsmith » Thu Nov 04, 2010 15:33

There is no easy way to unify a KOF community, this we all know from history. People are different, people have egos.

However the question is about saving ourselves the trouble of work when it's already been done. The Dream Cancel 2k2Um wiki looks great, however, it's missing strategies and of course it's incomplete in other ways too. SRK's wiki was done pretty much by Emil and discontinued because it's a hell of a job and it's no fun doing it on your own.

We've been updating a few threads here and I've been backing up the site, now that it's under my control we're not going to have any more gamespy type bullshit where nobody explains how to back up a database and then ten years of data disappears in an instant.

I could propose we all use the DC wiki, but of course we need to be able to edit it. Considering there's only like 5 of us who would want to edit it, that might not be a problem.

However we might want to discuss things, so how/where should we do that?

I know very well what people are like: I won't be surprised if nobody wants to go to Dreamcancel, preferring the atmosphere here, the colours, the boobs, whatever. It does seem silly to have two sources of info in different places, but again there's no harm in mirroring, if it's got nothing to do with ego/traffic and it's actually for the benefit of the player (lollllllllllllllllll)

I do what the ON community recommends (most of the time), so tell me what you think: (you can change your vote at any time) You can also vote on whether you prefer wikis or forums.

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Re: Wiki vs Forums

Post by Toxic Avanger » Thu Nov 04, 2010 16:20

Well, if you think about it; Wikis are like indexes where organized info are stored in; while the forums are more of a spur of the moment type of thing; where you (in theory) have pictures, jokes, ot, unrelated questions and étcetera among the proper source info.

Most gaming forums wikis are condensed info that is scattered through the threads, that's pretty much a fact. For example look at KoF XIII right now, first we have posts with totally vague info from the development stages of the game, then we have hard to confirm info from initial gameplay footage, then we had impressions from the people that play the game regularly, and when the game is out in consoles we are likely going to have a in there a mash of live tags, impressions about the port, "in neighborhood" talk about how was that online fight last night and then more strategy talk. If you are looking for a compendium of info, you are not going to find it.

To make long story short, the forums are shapeless per se, whereas wikis are meant to have a backbone and an organized structure in all accounts. Forums are (should) be all kinds of fun, as wikis necessarily should not be.


.... Now, pretty much the good and bad point of a wiki, is that it's not worth it unless all of the info is there. Also by the nature of the wiki everything that's in there is free to use by anyone; that has the big demerit of; if several wikis about the same subjects are made, they are likely to rip each other off shamelessly as hell.

In this case, the best choice is pretty much to "join efforts" and store everything in one wiki; otherwise the chances of some article being super complete in X wiki and being underworked in Z wiki are high... And after that N person is going to say "oh, I got it!" and is going to grab the info from X and paste it on Z (in the same vein of how translations about the game pre release info are pretty much distributed all over the place, many times without the original author knowing it).... I'll could go on a large list of how producing your info as a community has a meaning, and that different places should have different sources and takes on the info; but I better just stop it here, kukukuku.

It would be nice if a proper "joint" wiki could actually be made (I'm not going to sing up in another forum just for this :P), since having a wiki associated to a forum means that you can discuss what happens in the wiki at the forum and vice~versa, but that's not something you "ask" is something that you are offered. (it's like, if a religious sect walks to your door and orders 'hand over your house NAO!!!' "vs" you going to a religious sect and saying 'howdy folks~~~ you can use my place as you want' type of thing).



..... BTW, I remember that you had a bad vibe with KoF online or something back in the day (a "famous" snk fan site that had info on the korean (or was it HK?) comics and other stuff but pretty much everything else was half assed)... Why was that?

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Re: Wiki vs Forums

Post by Bugle/Hawk'M » Thu Nov 04, 2010 17:00

I don't think wikis or forums are better than the other, but they work together to make each other better. Basically, a wiki has all of the good concrete info that is often gleaned from discussions in the forum, and new people can more easily join the discussion in the forum if they read the wiki. I don't really know what the best solution for us is because I don't know if starting up an ON wiki (again) will actually get us to work on it, though we might have more success in this period that people are actually playing the games as opposed to last time when hardly any of us were. Also, I don't know if having us contribute to the DreamCancel's wiki would work out because I don't really know anything about their community. If we set up our own wiki, maybe we might be able to establish a rule of "you can take info from us, and we can take info from you" with them. Ideally, I guess there could be some 3rd party KoF gameplay wiki that invites all the different communities to contribute.

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Re: Wiki vs Forums

Post by PenPen » Thu Nov 04, 2010 17:07

I'd say we go with some sort of wiki-forum integration where information is posted on the wiki, with basic strats, but if we're going to talk about it more in depth, it can be done on the forums.

So maybe something like this:
Wiki will have movelist, character info?, some combos, and basic strats...and then obviously a link to the related character discussion thread (I *hope* the linking can be automated or else doing everything manually will take the motivation out of everyone involved).

The forum's first post will have the movelist of the character and a link back to the wiki, then have people come in and discuss etc.

At least that's what I'd picture if we're doing both. But everyone else got some 2k2 and XIII wiki up already.

Or if we aren't doing a wiki, we can just clean up the threads, spruce up the first post like they did over at DreamCancel, and keep the first post maintained if there's any new findings or info.

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Re: Wiki vs Forums

Post by PenPen » Thu Nov 04, 2010 17:21

Toxic Avanger wrote: ..... BTW, I remember that you had a bad vibe with KoF online or something back in the day (a "famous" snk fan site that had info on the korean (or was it HK?) comics and other stuff but pretty much everything else was half assed)... Why was that?
Re this, as I was originally from KOF online (10 years ago? That makes me OLD). I can attest to some of the history...basically it's about how images are used on the internets - back then there was more respect on using another image someone uploaded on their site, where site owner B needs to ask site owner A on whether he can repost owner A's pictures on his website.

I forgot what was exactly involved, but Vincent (KOF online's webmaster) and some of his members basically just took every KOF-related picture/comic/mp3/whatever from the internets and claimed it his own and placed on his website. Including Orochinagi's stuff (and some fakeshots or original contents too), which we found out later. I think Gun sent him an e-mail or two to take down the stolen pictures, but Vincent was like "lol the internets is free" and continued onto his own merry ways.

Well they're down now, and we're still alive and kicking. Maybe it's karma or something else, but yeah.

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Re: Wiki vs Forums

Post by Gunsmith » Thu Nov 04, 2010 17:59

Heh, PenPen's old memory serves him right, that is pretty much what happened, the phrase having been "Everything on the Internet is free"...

If you look at XIII forums, I've actually been editing the first post of each thread (nobody could tell :( ) and I could easily give out permissions to those wanting to edit posts.

Wikis can have discussion threads within each wiki page, but without all the functionality of these forums.

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Re: Wiki vs Forums

Post by PenPen » Thu Nov 04, 2010 18:36

Well Gun I have great memory for totally useless stuff like these. :D

I did notice that the XIII forums' first post had these new character palettes. I guess we can at least do that for 2k2UM threads.

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Re: Wiki vs Forums

Post by Toxic Avanger » Thu Nov 04, 2010 19:53

Gunsmith wrote: Wikis can have discussion threads within each wiki page, but without all the functionality of these forums.
Wikis discussion pages are usually for double checking the validity of the info (via sources or other people that are knowledgeable). They aren't meant for normal topics / conversations like "Gunsmith is my buttler!".

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Re: Wiki vs Forums

Post by Gunsmith » Thu Nov 04, 2010 20:15

So shall we say edit the first post of each thread and let the replies go crazy? That sounds organised enough, as long as people are willing to edit... I'll get round to it eventually (unless XIII comes out).

Anyone who'd like to volunteer with 2k2um editing please raise your hand! It is a long and seemingly thankless job, but at the same time, as long as you reply to the thread to explain whenever you've edited the post, I'm sure someone, somewhere, will be thanking you. Even if it's only me. Again.

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Re: Wiki vs Forums

Post by Kane317 » Fri Nov 05, 2010 11:23

PenPen wrote:
Toxic Avanger wrote: ..... BTW, I remember that you had a bad vibe with KoF online or something back in the day (a "famous" snk fan site that had info on the korean (or was it HK?) comics and other stuff but pretty much everything else was half assed)... Why was that?
Re this, as I was originally from KOF online (10 years ago? That makes me OLD). I can attest to some of the history...basically it's about how images are used on the internets - back then there was more respect on using another image someone uploaded on their site, where site owner B needs to ask site owner A on whether he can repost owner A's pictures on his website.

I forgot what was exactly involved, but Vincent (KOF online's webmaster) and some of his members basically just took every KOF-related picture/comic/mp3/whatever from the internets and claimed it his own and placed on his website. Including Orochinagi's stuff (and some fakeshots or original contents too), which we found out later. I think Gun sent him an e-mail or two to take down the stolen pictures, but Vincent was like "lol the internets is free" and continued onto his own merry ways.

Well they're down now, and we're still alive and kicking. Maybe it's karma or something else, but yeah.
I remember this, wasn't it CX...crap I forgot. Coz I thought Kof Online was Yasakani's website (my friend) or was it named something else lol, I really forgot. I remember it was about image stealing and not giving credit.

As for the wikis, it's really redundant to have 2 wikis. I vote for just keep the one at DC and discuss the wikis on the respective forums.

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Re: Wiki vs Forums

Post by PenPen » Fri Nov 05, 2010 17:07

I think CX came out much later though. KOF online was dead at least 5 years ago and I think CX wasn't created back then.

I do remember that Yasanaki had a KOF website but it's called something else that escaped my brain atm.

And Gun, if you'd like I can do some editing work before my motivation disappears this Sunday. D:

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Re: Wiki vs Forums

Post by Gunsmith » Fri Nov 05, 2010 22:28

kof 4ever, my ass. And if that provokes Yasakani out of retirement, you can thank me later.

P, let's get cracking!

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Re: Wiki vs Forums

Post by PenPen » Sat Nov 06, 2010 06:47

Well I'm off to make ones without threads first. But I am going to be absolutely stumped at a few characters I don't play, the two characters I can think right off my head are Angel and May Lee, whom I simply didn't bother learning anyway (and have no intention of using), and if I'm making threads about them, it'll be pretty barebones/crappy.

So anyone confident enough can step up and make a thread of characters they're pretty sure of, and I'll do some touching up afterwards if necessary. SS said he's working on Terry and Yashiro, so I'm leaving it up to him for them.

It'll be great if you can make threads that would follow the format of my Robert thread.

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Re: Wiki vs Forums

Post by devlkore » Sat Nov 06, 2010 15:26

Forums for discussion, wikis for facts and general info IMO. I also think 2 wikis is a bad idea, if mirroring could be automated so DC and ON both have it up to date and both communities could edit it then that would be best. Failing that, use whichever Wiki is more finished as a base.

I'd love to do the Angel thread but I am too nooby with her to help many people out. Same goes for king :(

edit: just for clarification, if wiki auto mirroring isn't an option, use the most complete Wiki and close the other one once any missing info is copied over.

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Re: Wiki vs Forums

Post by Gunsmith » Sat Nov 06, 2010 19:34

Well I guess we won't be setting up a wiki then. Let's then talk about how to implement using the wiki without making ON thread writers feel like having completely wasted their time.

Should we just link to each wiki entry and discuss? We could then leave discussion links in the wiki.

I will also ask that contributors be shown (there should be a display option to show "edited by")

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