KOF XII System Discussion

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KOF XII System Discussion

Post by PenPen » Tue Apr 14, 2009 17:42

This post will be continually added as long as I can get more information. Feel free to chime in!
Also, if you are using it in another forum be sure to link it back here since it's continually updated, and we need extra business.

= System bars =
Power bar - There's only 1 level, which you need to fill up to execute a DM. Currently it seems like there's no other use aside from using it for DMs.
Counter critical bar - Builds up by attacking and getting hit. From what I experienced, getting hit will build up the bar faster. Once the bar is filled, lifebar will start flashing in green, and you can start off CC combos with a successful CC initiator. Note that the bar will automatically deplete once it's filled up, and until the bar becomes empty, you can do as many CC initiators as you like (obviously when one is successful it automatically enters CC mode and you can't initiate anymore).
Lifebar - Duh. Damage scaling?

= New Movements =
CD attacks - Ground CD attacks can be cancelled out of (like before), but now can juggle, and can be cancelled into. Eg. with Kyo you can do standing C -> CD which makes it work like command moves that juggles. You can also cancel out the CD attack into a special or a DM (so Kyo can do like standing C -> CD -> rdp+D). Air CD attacks are the same.
Charged CD attacks - By holding CD, you can charge up your CD attack to make it unblockable. If it does reach that stage, the CD will be executed automatically, and upon a successful hit, the opponent will kneel down (like a weak KO) and you're free to run up and follow with random stuff. BUT! You can cancel out the move by doing a special or DM while charging. What this does is that the CD charging animation is cancelled into whatever move you just inputted. The timing is when your character is 'shaking' while charging the CD. To cancel into moves that require C/D buttons, you can release that button while holding the other, and input quickly.
Guard attacks - That's what SNKP called them. Basically it's done by holding b+CD, where your character will create a mini-force field thingy before doing an attack. What the mini-force field does is to block whatever attacks that come your way, regardless of high/mid/low. Now I'm not sure whether it can block multi-hit attacks, I assume that it only blocks 1 hit (for now). The attack afterwards will have the character do something that may be different from their CD attack, and if not blocked will sends the opponent flying. If it's blocked though, you're in for a beating because it does not push the opponent back. Additionally, you can still be grabbed/thrown by your opponent.
Sousai/Deadlock - Deadlock is SNKP's English name for this system. Basically, if your strong attack is clashing with a strong attack, a command move, special or DM (if I'm reading correctly from the website), you'll enter a sousai mode along with your opponent. What happens afterwards is depending on your inputs. If you didn't do anything, your character will do a hop back. If you inputted something else, the character will do that instead of hopping backwards (jumps are possible). Note that sousais can happen to fierballs as well. According to SNKP website, you will be taking back some of the intended damage, but they didn't specify how much.
Critical Counter - The key to getting in a meaty combo. Upon successful CC initiation (see above on how to the bar full first), opponent will get into a really long hitstun and you can do all sorts of bullshit like repeated standing Cs, and everything is cancellable (unsure about specials into specials ala 2k2 BC mode), until the CC bar depletes. Each character has a defined CC initiator, by doing standing C/D (depends on the character itself). When you're doing a CC initiator, your character will have a gold/yellowish glow. It's easy to tell that your CC initiator works, because the camera will immediately zoom in and the attack will have a pretty looking effect. A successful CC will require you to counter a grounded attack with your CC initiator. Upon entering CC mode, you can immediately do a DM, and from what I read on FightClub, it's somewhere around x1.5 to x1.7 (almost half a full lifebar), and you will exit CC mode immediately afterwards. You can tell that you did the DM immediately afterwards since it has a huge flash onscreen.
Counter attack - Countering an opponent's move will result in a MOTW-like 360 spin from the opponent. But there is NO counter message, so it's totally up to you to see whether it's a counter. The spin means the opponent will enter an extended hitstun, where you can followup with random stuff.
Additional normals - By doing f+C/D, depending on the character, the character will do a variant of their normal attack, which is very likely their old far C/D attack. But note that outside of CC mode, these are not cancellable into, and not cancellable into anything else.
Throwing - Throwing is now done by pressing b/f+AC. Note that it can now whiff. Additionally, if you are trying to throw someone and they are doing an attack (non-throw) at the same time, it will be countered. Throws are not breakable.
Recovery roll - Now instead of pressing AB when falling from the air, you can press either A/B/C/D to do it. But whether it works like MOTW's recovery, is still unsure.
Roll cancelling - During any normal move you can press AB to roll cancel. It doesn't require any stocks, or any CC bar to be filled.
Back stepping - There are two versions, one is b-b-f, and one is b-b. The b-b-f version will have your character do a quick backwards step that isn't that far away. The b-b version goes back farther, and is noticeably slower.

Credit to the team:
- Kane317 for the roll cancelling and CD charge cancel stuff
- KusoGaki for the back step info
- dobiqwolf for some of the CD charge cancel stuff

Unless there are any new findings, we can consider this to be about 90% complete.
Last edited by PenPen on Mon May 18, 2009 14:57, edited 9 times in total.

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Re: KOF XII System Discussion

Post by PenPen » Tue Apr 14, 2009 17:51

Should be a complete list now.

= CC Initiators =
Below are the CC initiators for each character.

Ash Crimson - standing C
Duo Lon - standing D
Shen Woo - standing C
Kyo Kusanagi - standing C
Benimaru Nikaido - standing C
Goro Daimon - standing C
Iori Yagami - standing C
Athena Asamiya - standing C
Sie Kensou - standing C
Chin Gentsai - standing C
Terry Bogard - standing C
Andy Bogard - standing C
Joe Higashi - standing C
Kim Kaphwan - standing C
Raiden - standing C
Ryo Sakazaki - standing C
Robert Garcia - standing C
Ralf Jones - standing C
Clark Still - standing D
Leona Heidern - standing C

= Additional Normals =
Additional normals (eg. old far C/D) for each character.

Ash Crimson - f+C
Duo Lon - f+D
Shen Woo - f+C
Kyo Kusanagi - f+C
Benimaru Nikaido - f+C, f+D
Goro Daimon - f+C
Iori Yagami - f+D
Athena Asamiya - f+C
Sie Kensou - f+C
Chin Gentsai - f+D
Terry Bogard - f+C
Andy Bogard - f+D
Joe Higashi - f+C
Kim Kaphwan - f+C, f+D
Raiden - f+C
Ryo Sakazaki - f+C
Robert Garcia - f+C
Ralf Jones - f+C
Clark Still - f+D
Leona Heidern - f+C
Last edited by PenPen on Thu Apr 30, 2009 19:06, edited 7 times in total.

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Re: KOF XII System Discussion

Post by Dark_Chaotix » Wed Apr 15, 2009 13:17

PenPen wrote: Unconfirmed:
Guard cancel rolls & CD attacks are very likely gone, but I want to confirm just in case.
It seems that I can do roll cancelling (ala standing C then AB). But I can't replicate it save for 1-2 times out of like 20 tries. Maybe it's stock related?
CC initiators are b+C/D or just C/D itself?
So a CD attack doesnt blow off like it did in previous games. And are all CD attack have same attributes, like able to cancel into other attacks?

roll cancelling sounds interesting. I didnt know that kept it yet still acts the same. Nothing changes in stock when done?

What are the restrictions to CD in a combo? Can it only be done after heavy attack?

And are the CC starters, are they different from just plain sC or sD to back+C / D?

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Re: KOF XII System Discussion

Post by PenPen » Wed Apr 15, 2009 15:17

So a CD attack doesnt blow off like it did in previous games. And are all CD attack have same attributes, like able to cancel into other attacks?
Yeah, all CD attacks have the same attributes, they can juggle. And at least from the ones I tried, they can be cancelled into special moves (whether they can kara-cancel is something I didn't try yet).
roll cancelling sounds interesting. I didnt know that kept it yet still acts the same. Nothing changes in stock when done?
I honestly have no idea how roll cancelling is done. I think I did it once or twice by accident. I *think* I saw someone do it (like a low A into rolling) without needing the power bar. I don't get many chances to try it out unfortunately. Which is why I put it as unconfirmed.
What are the restrictions to CD in a combo? Can it only be done after heavy attack?
A heavy attack into CD is the most common way. I haven't tried light attacks into CD yet. If cancelled into, the CD will work like a command move.
And are the CC starters, are they different from just plain sC or sD to back+C / D?
Tried it today and I'm pretty sure that they're plain standing C/D.

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Re: KOF XII System Discussion

Post by Dark_Chaotix » Sun Apr 19, 2009 03:11

In a few more vids, Ive seen SOOOOO many rolls being done. Are they still punishable via throw?

And is there are guard gauge? Cos I dont think Ive seen anyone get a broken guard yet....

Also, is there any reason not to spam just C, C, C, C, C, C or basically one button when in CC mode? Is there a difference in the different mixup options? And is CD available in CC mode aswell?

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Re: KOF XII System Discussion

Post by PenPen » Sun Apr 19, 2009 06:55

In a few more vids, Ive seen SOOOOO many rolls being done. Are they still punishable via throw?
This I haven't read or seen any posts or other stuffs about it.
And is there are guard gauge? Cos I dont think Ive seen anyone get a broken guard yet....
Guard gauge is invisible, but there's no guard breaking yet (unless it's a charged CD).
Also, is there any reason not to spam just C, C, C, C, C, C or basically one button when in CC mode? Is there a difference in the different mixup options? And is CD available in CC mode aswell?
For now, not really. Even if the opponent's in an extended hitstun, you only have so much time to deal damage and so far pressing C repeatedly is the best option available. You can mixup with jump attacks and sweeps but it won't bring the opponent down. You can press CD too, which I think blows them off. During CC mode the opponent floats in the air longer so you can followup with other things as well.

And roll cancelling is here, as long as you press AB during a normal move, the roll cancelling can be done with no extra cost (from what I'm told for now).

Throws cannot be broken now. But, throws and grabs can be countered with the opponent doing an attack at the same time.

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Re: KOF XII System Discussion

Post by Dark_Chaotix » Sun Apr 19, 2009 09:25

In regards to CC, I meant, does doing another combo that consist of mixing up the attacks does the damage change? Cos to me someone that spams sC looks the same, damage wise to the official kof xii combos where they mix it up prior to DM finish.

Roll canceling free? Wow.....thats interesting. If possible, see if you can def confirm that.

Throw not breakable, thats interesting aswell....I wonder how big is your wakeup window so you dont get thrown straight away, and going by rolling, seems you can be thrown at all.

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Re: KOF XII System Discussion

Post by PenPen » Tue Apr 21, 2009 18:20

Can't tell whether the damage does change by much. As said, doing repeated standing Cs is the best one out there since it's the safest and does pretty nice damage to start with.

Throws aren't breakable, but I added that they can be countered by doing a normal move or whatever attack which will nullify the throw. This applies to wakeup as well.

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Re: KOF XII System Discussion

Post by Tiamat » Wed Apr 22, 2009 21:12

I'm happy throws are unbreakable now, they were pretty bad last game to say the least.

I have a question that I don't think has been addressed. Are there any special move cancels to DMs? This has been in a lot of the KOFs so I'm wondering if it's still there or if it was removed. I'm talking stuff like Iori DP+C cancel to DM and stuff like that

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Re: KOF XII System Discussion

Post by SonicTempest » Wed Apr 22, 2009 21:25

No, there are no super cancels. A few characters seem to be able to cancel specials into DMs (e.g. Shen QCF+K into QCFx2+P) but those seem like properties of the moves themselves rather than a common system feature that everyone can take advantage of.

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Re: KOF XII System Discussion

Post by Tiamat » Wed Apr 22, 2009 22:17

Thanks, I had been wondering about that.

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Re: KOF XII System Discussion

Post by SonicTempest » Thu Apr 23, 2009 07:04

Looking at this video:
http://dic.nicovideo.jp/v/sm6807064" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

At around 0:52 the CPU Iori does two quick, short backsteps, but at 0:54 he does a much longer, slower one. Any idea what the difference is?

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Re: KOF XII System Discussion

Post by PenPen » Thu Apr 23, 2009 15:57

SonicTempest wrote:Looking at this video:
http://dic.nicovideo.jp/v/sm6807064" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

At around 0:52 the CPU Iori does two quick, short backsteps, but at 0:54 he does a much longer, slower one. Any idea what the difference is?
Yeah I noticed that as well. But not sure how this would come out...

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Re: KOF XII System Discussion

Post by Dark_Chaotix » Fri Apr 24, 2009 12:53

interesting find.

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Re: KOF XII System Discussion

Post by KusoGaki » Mon Apr 27, 2009 01:33

PenPen wrote:
SonicTempest wrote:Looking at this video:
http://dic.nicovideo.jp/v/sm6807064" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

At around 0:52 the CPU Iori does two quick, short backsteps, but at 0:54 he does a much longer, slower one. Any idea what the difference is?
Yeah I noticed that as well. But not sure how this would come out...
I tested this today, maybe you already found this out, but anyway the short hop is back, back then forward, and long hop is back back.
Not too sure the uses at the moment as i only got to play against cpu today.

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