Your thoughts on revenge?

Persona · Post by **Persona** » Tue Apr 08, 2008 03:34

Was wondering about if you would ever get revenge on anyone.

A few reasons people may want to get revenge is because:

"they think you're a jerk already, might as well be one and get them back"
"there's no such thing as karma, might just want to assure they get what they deserve by doing it yourself"

A few reasons people may not want to get revenge is because:

"you'll just stoop to their level"
"be the better man and let it go"
"let karma handle it"

Even if your revenge has no evidence that you or your friends have done it, they will obviously know you did it. Does benefit of the doubt help at all?

Your opinions please. You can leave the jokes in but I would rather have a nice discussion.

Bugle/Hawk'M · Post by **Bugle/Hawk'M** » Tue Apr 08, 2008 04:01

I don't think that personal revenge is something that accomplishes anything, but I've never been in a situation where I thought it was warranted. I guess I'm optimistic enough to trust that society or government will correct injustices, which is weird considering I generally don't like or trust people. The idea of getting revenge for yourself because the world has failed to is romantic, or at least pop culture would lead us to believe (look at The Punisher, Char from Gundam, or damn near any superhero), but it's unrealistic. If somebody killed your parents or something and got away with it, and you kill them, you've pretty much ended your own life as well.

Oh, and are you sure you didn't want this in the off topic forum instead of the stupid room?

Kyosuke Kagami · Post by **Kyosuke Kagami** » Tue Apr 08, 2008 04:45

Revenge is for mentally and emotionally weak people.

FACT.

Perfect Stranger · Post by **Perfect Stranger** » Tue Apr 08, 2008 05:34

If I could get away with it, my philosophy is generally "If some asshole made you suffer and he's getting away with it, why the hell aren't you making sure he's paying for it?"

In reality unfortunately, I'm often too easily dissuaded by the extreme amount of effort needed to both make sure the revenge is good enough that it'll hurt and bulletproof enough that it doesn't just invite another response from the target of my wrath.

I understand that the modern, civil attitude towards revenge is that it solves nothing, that it only leads to a cycle of hate and suffering, etc. While I agree with this to a point (i.e. there's no need for you to extract bloody vengeance from every one who's ever slighted you), I also think it's necessary that one stands up for himself and doesn't just take bullshite from assholes. It simply makes no sense to me that some people would say, "Look, yes, this guy did something horrible to you, but you've got to learn to let it go" - what the hell is stopping that person from REPEATEDLY making your life hell unless you show him you're not to be trifled with?

Being interested in competitve games as I am, I guess it's not that much of a surprise that I've taken some game theory in classes. A classic setup is a situation where you have 2 players who can choose individually whether or not to cooperate with the other player, or betray his trust. Normally this game is setup such that the payoffs of the game is such that if one person betrays while the other cooperates, the betrayer gets a really high payoff while the cooperating player gets a low payoff, if both cooperate they both get moderately high payoffs (but not as high as if they had betrayed while the other player cooperated), and if both choose to betray then both get low payoffs (but not as low as if they had cooperated and the other player betrayed). If you run this kind of setup over many rounds, it's been consistently found in many separate trials that one of the best, strategies if not clearly *the* best strategy, is one of tit for tat, that is, you cooperate if the other player had cooperated in the last round, and you betray if the other player had betrayed the last round. I thought this was interesting as it seems to be a formal academic result validating my philosophy: If someone screws with you you need to screw him back to show that you will not stand to be screwed with over and over again.

Persona · Post by **Persona** » Tue Apr 08, 2008 06:52

Bugle: decided to put it in the stupid room cuz i'm guessing it'll get most replies.

KK: that's usually what I hear at yahoo answers. So you're saying that strong people can take it for what it is and forgive and forget? Lets say hmm, a group of people who hate you burned down your house. While you're there watching your house hurn down, you see them from a distance laughing and pointing. Are you willing to shrug it off and buy a new house while there's still a chance of them burning your next house or would you try to get even and then buy a new house, making them think whether or not they should get into the cycle again. Basically to end the cycle, one side has to leave. To some people, the leaver is the winner, to some, the leaver is the loser.

PS: I really liked your post although I do understand the last paragraph a bit, I'm still not sure what point you're trying to get across with it. So you're kinda saying that if you can get away with revenge, you would do it? I think just like what your post says, people who learn to piss others off need to get what they deserve or they will just keep stepping on your head. It's kinda like the nerd and bully. The bully will keep stepping on the nerd unless something is done. The nerd can:

1) stand up for himself and fight back or
2) tell the teacher

IMO the bully would obviously have more chances to stop if the nerd did number 1. Bully doesn't have much to lose if the teacher told him to stop.

Call me weak but I've gotten revenge on most people who did me wrong badly. Sure some thing I can shrug off but some I just can't. I never regreted doing them since in the end, they totally flip and kiss my feet and NEVER has done anything to me again (this type of revenge is the type where I let them know it was me) but I'm having 2nd thoughts on this recent person because they SEEM to be 'mature' enough to let it go. And to me, ignoring and letting go hurts most. Like lets say for example I trash their car. They'll look at their car, smile and just buy a new one. Sure they won't have proof me or my friends have done it, but they'll still suspect us. If they go apeshit and give us a reaction, the pleasure comes in and we play stupid. If they try getting us back and we have the benefit of the doubt, they'll be busted for good. But the thing is, are they willing to risk it? It's like saying, "I'm not sure if they're the ones who kill my parents, should I give it a shot and try to kill theirs?" This type of revenge sounds more like a Metal Gear Solid versus mode game.

So the next question, if you can get away with it scottfree, would you do it? Like doing it a later enough time to make sure they're not sure if it was you and become paranoid. Sure most people will think, planning revenge wastes too much time and in the end makes you bitter, but what if you just feel like doing it? As in think of it as just something on your schedule. You still work, play games, have fun and when the time comes, get your revenge.

Sorry if my post doesn't make much sense, I'm pretty tired at the moment.

Foxhole · Post by **Foxhole** » Tue Apr 08, 2008 06:53

P, stop asking, I know you're gonna do it anyways.

You know I'm right.

Persona · Post by **Persona** » Tue Apr 08, 2008 06:55

I'm not sure! My opponent is a tough one with their defense and maturity!

Kyosuke Kagami · Post by **Kyosuke Kagami** » Tue Apr 08, 2008 07:13

Persona, I'm gonna answer you with some psychology.

As much as other people would like to justify it and all that shit... Revenge is just an impulse coming out of your Emotions (the part of your brain which reacts inmediately to anything, followed later by the cognitive reasoning) which generally would make a person do things that they'd probably regret in other circumstances.

Someone who wants revenge has lost (temporary or maybe permanently, depends) the connection between the emotional impulses and the cognitive capability to think about them and try to find a solution which doesn't involve something to hurt or destroy someone else.

People think revenge is something that's driven by cognitive intelligence, but that's far from being the truth in most cases.

Foxhole · Post by **Foxhole** » Tue Apr 08, 2008 07:14

Kyosuke Kagami wrote:psychology.

Whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa, somebody is using words way above their reading level. Take it easy before you hurt yourself.

Shiny · Post by **Shiny** » Tue Apr 08, 2008 07:17

Oh dear.

Post by **SonicTempest** » Tue Apr 08, 2008 07:25

I'm not in favour of seeking revenge, but my basis for doing so isn't logic; it's more of a moral justification, so it's probably not really needed in this thread.

That and I can't recall any instance in my life when I've felt the urge to get revenge on anyone.

0style · Post by **0style** » Tue Apr 08, 2008 07:28

Bugle/Hawk'M wrote: Oh, and are you sure you didn't want this in the off topic forum instead of the stupid room?

I'm guessing he put it here so he can message me when he wants it deleted or something.

Kyosuke Kagami · Post by **Kyosuke Kagami** » Tue Apr 08, 2008 07:35

Foxhole wrote:
Kyosuke Kagami wrote:psychology.

Whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa, somebody is using words way above their reading level. Take it easy before you hurt yourself.

See, P? This is an example of someone who can't control their visceral impulses and tend to write up shit without even knowing what the hell they're talking about

I'd explain more, but my mind is now sleepy and wanting to finish a work about how to make Glass

Foxhole · Post by **Foxhole** » Tue Apr 08, 2008 07:40

Last time I recall, this forum was meant for flaming.

Kyosuke Kagami · Post by **Kyosuke Kagami** » Tue Apr 08, 2008 07:41

I should shut up before causing more shit.