:: orochinagi

This question came to mind after I read about a recent diplomatic row between Singapore and Australia over the execution (in Singapore) of a drug trafficker who was an Australian national.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4487366.stm

Singapore has among the strictest anti-drug laws in the world, with execution as the punishment for trafficking more than 15 grams of heroin.

So, what do you guys think?

I think the government just pisses away the taxpayers money with lethal injection and the gas chamber.

Firing squad! thats the way to go! Michael moore estimated it was $0.14 cents a bullet. By all accounts its cheap. More funds for education and health care this way.

It's barbaric but people NEED TO DIE! Should only apply to people who are truly guilty, 100% sure they did the crime and only to crimes like rape and anything that ruins another person's life for a lifetime.

Well if it's really a heavy crime (imo, massacre, gang rape, large smuggling of drugs) i'd really agree... and also.. that's one person out of the world.

Monpochi wrote:Well if it's really a heavy crime (imo, massacre, gang rape, large smuggling of drugs) i'd really agree... and also.. that's one person out of the world.

First, make sure that they actually did the crime, cuz killing someone for a crime that they didn't do sucks.

this has been all over the news in australia, and i really couldnt care less. i bet this hasn't even raised an eyebrow in singapore. the media here are making singapore out to be a savage country, which is bs. the guy knew what he was doing and he knew the penalty. drug trafficking is worse than rape, imo. would u like this guy to peddle drugs to your friends/family? deserved to die, imo.

ask anyone, i am a very patriotic aussie, but in this case, australia should and stop being a bitch and not pressure smaller nations into adopting our ways, leave that to america.

as for the death penalty, it shud only be used in extreme cases, with repeat offences and such.

EDIT: haha i just clicked on the link, and the caption said "The execution led to mourning across Australia." that is an utter lie and i didn't read any further. why do western countries feel the need to make other cultures look bad? this is singapore's way of dealing with things and everyone else shud STFU and not rock the boat.

wtf? you're saying the people [lol] who do get raped ask to get raped? i don't see how drug dealing is worse, the people that buy drugs are well aware of what they're doing before they become addicted druggies.

well yeah, it's pretty much been front page material here in australia for the last month or so.

i didnt really read the link, but he did that to pay off some debts that his brother built up - i think it was to the tune of 20/30000 australian dollars. but to be honest, if you're trying to smuggle that much drugs (3/400 grams of heroin from memory) then there's definately something that the public hasnt been informed about. the paper yesterday was saying that the amount was enough to feed about 26000 addicts, so his story just isnt that plausible.

even though singapore has come in for a lot of shit for the death sentence, the fact is that the guy knew or should have known what he was in for when he decided to do it.

the fact is that singapore had to do this to make a martyr of sorts out of him. freeing him from the death penalty would also set an undesirable precedent for future drug traffickers in singapore. like eczema sez, its wrong to villify a country's methods. every country is different and that individuality should be respected by everyone.

you do not go to a stranger's house, put your feet up on their couch, eat their food and steal their money. it's loosely the same principle.

I'd be for the death penalty in america if it wasnst for the thought that 12 random strangers and a judge who had nothing to do with whatever was involved got to decided on the hearsay and unconclutional accounts of all the parties involved. Not only that, but every so often a death row inmate is found to have actually been innocent. wtf is up with that?

I don't think we should serve death until we at least know how to find justice.
Other than that i'd probablly be for it if it wernt for that fact that i don't think i could ever bring myself to kill another liveing human being - there for nulling my motion to tell others to do it for me. If i couldn't do it myself, how can i tell others to do it for me?

/conflicted

StyLe wrote:wtf? you're saying the people [lol] who do get raped ask to get raped? i don't see how drug dealing is worse, the people that buy drugs are well aware of what they're doing before they become addicted druggies.

1. I said IMO.

2. Drug addiction is an illness, and while the initial decision may have been made consciously to take the drug, from then on the addict has little choice.

3. Drugs can cause severe physical illnesses and are a good way to transfer diseases, while rape is usually mostly a mental wound.

4. There is worse social stigma associated with drugs than rape.

5. Friends/family of rape victims aren't afraid of getting robbed or assaulted for drug money.

6. Rape victims can get rehab'd, while drug users can live with physical disabilties for the rest of their lives, as well as poor social status.

7. One drug dealer can hurt more ppl than one rapist.

8. That's my reasoning, if you disagree, thats ok.

Eczema wrote: 1. I said IMO.

2. Drug addiction is an illness, and while the initial decision may have been made consciously to take the drug, from then on the addict has little choice.

3. Drugs can cause severe physical illnesses and are a good way to transfer diseases, while rape is usually mostly a mental wound.

4. There is worse social stigma associated with drugs than rape.

5. Friends/family of rape victims aren't afraid of getting robbed or assaulted for drug money.

6. Rape victims can get rehab'd, while drug users can live with physical disabilties for the rest of their lives, as well as poor social status.

7. One drug dealer can hurt more ppl than one rapist.

Your opinions are short sighted.
1)ya i know u said, "IMO". i wanted you to back up ur talk as you did just now.

2)K, you saw my point. Fin~ ps - let's say the dealer has a conscience and decides to stop selling, the addict can go find another dealer. yes drug dealing is bad, it's victim isn't innocent however.

3)ALL rapist are really STD free and can't spread STDs to their victims since they don't have any. D stands for Disease.. does Disease =/= illness to you? Hello africa.

4)I would like to see proof to this. Hello Amsterdam. Amsterdam may be fucked up IYO, but i don't see rape legal anywhere.

5)LOLOL.. how narrow can you think?

6)Who said rehab is a 100% cure? As with disabilities, mental wounds also last a lifetime. Do you know of a memory wiping machine or something?

7)one rapist can rape many and lvl up to SERIAL RAPIST, be on the news and scare the fuck out of all potential victims.

you're free to believe what you want, this is just for you to know your flaws of your beliefs. IMO drug dealing should not be punishable by death anywhere and the death of Nguyen Tuong Van is wrong, but that's what he gets for not planning ahead. :)

-4n'Dant3- wrote:the fact is that singapore had to do this to make a martyr of sorts out of him. freeing him from the death penalty would also set an undesirable precedent for future drug traffickers in singapore. like eczema sez, its wrong to villify a country's methods. every country is different and that individuality should be respected by everyone.

Not so much make a martyr out of him, but simply follow up on policy long since established. It's not like he's the first drug trafficker to be caught in 10 years or so.

I might question the validity of a statement saying that it is wrong to villify a country's methods - if you look at, say, a country that allows men to collectively beat up, rape and stone women to death for offences such as going out without properly covering your face, I'd say there's something pretty much wrong there. On a less drastic note, if you had a government that knew fnark all about economics and simply printed more money when it needed to and thus hyperinflating the hell out of its own economy, I'm pretty sure that could be regarded as universally bad too.

The problem, as I see it, is always one of relativity - It seems like it's a big thing because, other than it being an Australian guy about to be executed, Australia doesn't have laws as strict as Singapore does on drug execution. To bring up a clearer example - imagine that the penalty for picking someone's pockets was to have your hands chopped off. Pretty harsh punishment, and easily regardable as savage to some. The point though, is that it isn't inherently wrong to punish the person who's done wrong, the controversy is drawn from when the punishment seems far too harsh given the seriousness of the crime.

At the end of the day, I'm pretty sure Singapore isn't going to back down from this. The last time it did with Michael Fay and the Clinton intervening, it wasn't on as serious a problem as drug trafficing, and Australia is a lot less important a trading partner with Singapore as is the US.

Zaro Yagami wrote:I think the government just pisses away the taxpayers money with lethal injection and the gas chamber.

Firing squad! thats the way to go! Michael moore estimated it was $0.14 cents a bullet. By all accounts its cheap. More funds for education and health care this way.

I actually read somewhere that contrary to intuition, its more expensive, in America, for the government to execute someone, than it is to jail him for life. Main reason for this are the legal costs involved.

On the guy getting executed:

I seriously doubt there's any chance that the Sing Govt would back down now after all the hooha. It'd be too much of a loss of face at this stage.

We hanged Flor Contemplacion, didn't we?

Besides, I don't understand why the Aussies are getting so uptight. It's a gook we're hanging. Aren't you guys supposed to all be racist and not care two hoots that we're hanging someone with yellow skin?

I prefer if S'pore Gov just drugged him to death, instead of hanging.

But wait till a bloody Aussie caucasian is on the place for hanging & i can bet ya Johnnie Howard will lick S'pore PM's ass instantly.

sad thing is that he was actually on a stopover in singapore, which is probably the worst place to be if you're a drug trafficker. I suppose he didnt deserve to die, maybe extrodited back to australia to be tried or whatever. It's just, the death penalty is too loosely used nowawdays. You stuff up once, YOU DIE....although the government said the death penalty is mainly meant to "deter" any would-be drug-lords from offending in singapore.

but it's true that the australian media is making a big fuss on this. Sure it's a sad thing he died, but having the premiere (leader of a state) say "oh, this is a sad day for australia/singapore relations." is just dumb.


oh yeah, apparently my parents know a hangman in singapore, and from what i hear they get $400 SG per hanging.......thats not bad for, like, 10 minutes of work[/b]