What constitutes identity?

[SonicTempest]

zomg a serious discussion topic.

Perhaps some background would be appropriate.
I was at my discussion section for my World Literature class today. At the moment we're reading stuff about the Ottoman Empire, particularly travelogues by Ottoman-era writers about their experiences in Europe (e.g. Najaf Kuli Mirza). This got us on the subject of how people can understand other cultures - most of the class was pretty optimistic that inter-societal understanding would eventually be achieved. Yet, this flew in the face of the response to the next question the TA asked us - how do people who come from dual cultures deal with this fact?

As it turned out, a lot of the people in the class admitted to having trouble with their own conception of identity because of their dual heritage.

Which brings me back to the point at hand.

What do you, ONers, feel constitutes your sense of "identity?" Is it being part of a particular group, or is it something more intangible than that?

Personally I find myself in a tough spot when it comes to this, being born in India, yet having grown up outside my country. Every time I go back to visit my many relatives I feel like an uncrossable chasm has opened between us, simply by the fact that I cannot put myself in their shoes at all. At the same time, I don't really identify very strongly with the countries where I've lived (and currently live), either, leaving me in a rather uncomfortable grey area.

[BP]

Well, despite living in Saudi Arabia for almost 3/4ths of my life - most of my lifestyle around my home seems much akin to how my parents were - mostly Egyptian. My mother and her relatives, though, despite being of Egyptian origin, have lived in Sudan mostly, so I find it a bit difficult to get used to the terms and what-not when it comes to the country itself.

But I do feel that one's identity comes with whatever lifestyle culture he is adapted to from his younger days up till the present time - which pretty much sums it up for my case.

[Bugle/Hawk'M]

I don't necessarily always think of identity in cultural terms. It is definately derived from that and the easiest way people identify themselves and otheres is through this basis. In more general terms, I think of identity as the way a person is percieved by themselves and by others. So there are many identities for every person, and ther is no real way to label a person with any one of those identities. Just think of the way people here would identify you, it would probably be completely different than how your friends in real life would identify you, whether you intended it or not.

Also, you are identified by things like your social security number, credit car numbers, and crap like that. Those are just my random musings on identity, I don't think I have anything constructive to say about cultural identity and the effect of mixed cultures.

[Apathy Wind]

WHAT THE FUCK!?

I just spent 30 minutes typing up my thoughts on this interesting subject only to have the damn forum tell me I needed to sign in again after submitting my post. And when I did so the whole fucking post was gone.....


Sorry for the offtopic response but I'm fucking pissed

EDIT: Apparently this POS post worked though

[Iori E]

Just be glad you're not on the other extreme of the "identity spectrum." Some people feel so strongly about their national, racial, or cultural identities that they start to look down on others outside these groups. Worst-case scenario, you become a Nazi.

Being in the "gray area" could very well be an identity in itself. Don't be afraid to embrace it.

[Vice Vecta]

**OT: AW, I feel you, happened in the past that huge speeches has been lost in the anals of evanescence due of errors or shit like that. After that, I always select all the big text i just wrote and do Crtl + C just in case an accident happens.**

Identity... identity... interesting stuff indeed.

Country? Race? Lifestyles? Food? Culture? In these days of globalization, the cultural identity is getting smaller and smaller. Now it's easier to get mixed (example: I am half gypsi, half spanic, half italian, half aztec) and due of the internet and other factors, it's easier to belong more into an international identity rather than a cultural one.

I, as for me, I still feel the identity as a mexican. There's still strong factors that dominate in me as a latin, a mexican, a "chilango" (born in Mexico City), a Santoyo Franco (my family names) and my own self. And it's funny, after you've become an ex-pat, the identity ties from your country sometimes get stronger as now you represent your race, culture, country, hometown, family and your own self in the new place you are living.

But it comes to my mind... what could be the identity of my children if I happen to get married (brrrrrrrrrr..... ) with... say, a chinese or japanese girl? Will they be mexican? chinese? japanese? from nowhere? from everywhere? Yup, definitelly the subject brings more and more confusion for mixed people.

So yeah, as E said, embracing grey areas seems to eb the way to go for mixed people or the ones who have been in several countries, cultures and lifestyles. I don't see anything wrong with that.

[-4n'Dant3-]

I was born in Malaysia, raised in Australia after 5. Every year when I visit Malaysia, I feel completely out of place because of the differences in Asian and Western upbringings, even though it seems like 80% of the people in Sydney are Asian. National segmentation is so extreme here that we can identify the suburbs where people of different countries live and hang out.

Due to some strange strange reason, Asians have herd mentality, are xenophobic and tend to avoid 'grouping' with caucasians. In that sense, it is honestly difficult for me (and actually an extremely large majority of Asian people living here) to feel uniquely 'Australian,' because we've only imported our own cultural values and transplanted it in a foreign environment. In fact, I'd dare to say that this is true for Asians in almost every other Western country. So having that considered, maybe our identity is a hybrid or Eastern and Western values.

This cultural transplanting thing isn't exactly undesirable though. We identify ourselves with the environment we grow up in, and a diverse set of values throughout our upbringing gives us greater potential than those living in a country were the extreme majority is of one nationality. Unless that country is Japan.

But hey SS, having a country to identify yourself with is pretty overrated unless you feel the need to be patriotic.

[Eczema]

I was born in Malaysia, raised in Australia after 5. Every year when I visit Malaysia, I feel completely out of place because of the differences in Asian and Western upbringings, even though it seems like 80% of the people in Sydney are Asian. National segmentation is so extreme here that we can identify the suburbs where people of different countries live and hang out.

Due to some strange strange reason, Asians have herd mentality, are xenophobic and tend to avoid 'grouping' with caucasians. In that sense, it is honestly difficult for me (and actually an extremely large majority of Asian people living here) to feel uniquely 'Australian,' because we've only imported our own cultural values and transplanted it in a foreign environment. In fact, I'd dare to say that this is true for Asians in almost every other Western country. So having that considered, maybe our identity is a hybrid or Eastern and Western values.

This cultural transplanting thing isn't exactly undesirable though. We identify ourselves with the environment we grow up in, and a diverse set of values throughout our upbringing gives us greater potential than those living in a country were the extreme majority is of one nationality. Unless that country is Japan.

But hey SS, having a country to identify yourself with is pretty overrated unless you feel the need to be patriotic.

This is me 100%, except I left Malaysia when I was 1, and I live in Melbourne.

[SonicTempest]

So if you think nationality/citizenship doesn't necessarily constitute identity, what do you substitute for it?

[Fuu]

I used to have rather regular values, but at a certain point i began to see things in a different light for a number of reasons.

Why having as identity something that was there before you were even born?
Birthplace, culture, race, religion, are all things that are brought upon you. Why being proud of them, why are they important?

To me, my identity are my thoughs, my opinions, what originated from me, the choices i made in my life. I like to take responsability for myself, i like to feel my mind free of those bonds.

[nevadash]

So if you think nationality/citizenship doesn't necessarily constitute identity, what do you substitute for it?

Sexual identity?

Ps. I found hentai on my brother's comp a few years back and was quite annoyed for him stealing my 'exclusive' perversion.

[Vice Vecta]

IWhy having as identity something that was there before you were even born?
Birthplace, culture, race, religion, are all things that are brought upon you. Why being proud of them, why are they important?

I guess these values vary from person to person. It's something very independent. Some people are nationalists, race proud, strong religion followers due of their breeding and education. These values represent the place they're coming from, their roots and the way they grew up. It's part of their own representation.

To me, my identity are my thoughs, my opinions, what originated from me, the choices i made in my life. I like to take responsability for myself, i like to feel my mind free of those bonds.

That's of course, how the main identity should be. First it's your own self, your thoughts, ideas, choices in life, etc. but then after, according of was your education and your own environment and/or surroundings, other indentity values might be added as neighbourhood, town, country, race, ethnicity, religion, etc etc etc.

[-4n'Dant3-]

So if you think nationality/citizenship doesn't necessarily constitute identity, what do you substitute for it?

Sexual identity?

Ps. I found hentai on my brother's comp a few years back and was quite annoyed for him stealing my 'exclusive' perversion.

Not to worry mate, Eggslicer will always be your exclusive XD

So if you think nationality/citizenship doesn't necessarily constitute identity, what do you substitute for it?

Nationality isnt necessarily a judge of a person's identity - their beliefs, opinions, and distinguishing abilities (like profession, hobbies and interests) and physical attributes are what really constitutes a person.

But when I say that Nationality isnt necessarily a judge, this is just implying that the place and conditions we're raised in as children as a HUGE bearing on identity. If I was raised in Malaysia, I would probably have been a comparatively skinny ass kid doing something like manual labour, rather than someone with professional aspirations.

Context and Identity go hand in hand. Not exactly off-topic, but if you beleived in true love, do you die a virgin if you somehow knew that she was in another part of the world and you had no chance of meeting her? Circumstance is a big factor in Identity.

This is me 100%, except I left Malaysia when I was 1, and I live in Melbourne.

Quite alike, you and I. Apparently Melbourne has more asians and hotter chicks too... .

[Gojira]

I'd like to say that personal things like thoughts determine identity. I'd like to, but I can't. Unshared thoughts are worthless. Just as a lone tree falling in the woods makes no sound, identity is not defined by the self, but by others. If you were the only man on earth, you would have no identity. You'd have no need of a name, a culture, an occupation, a country, etc. because you're the only one there. Man cannot identify himself because man has no need to identify himself; that is the job of another. Therefore, identity is impressing on others. Culture, rules, morals and so forth are a boundary that formats the impression.

[r3v3n4nT]

I'd like to say that personal things like thoughts determine identity. I'd like to, but I can't. Unshared thoughts are worthless. Just as a lone tree falling in the woods makes no sound, identity is not defined by the self, but by others. If you were the only man on earth, you would have no identity. You'd have no need of a name, a culture, an occupation, a country, etc. because you're the only one there. Man cannot identify himself because man has no need to identify himself; that is the job of another. Therefore, identity is impressing on others. Culture, rules, morals and so forth are a boundary that formats the impression.

IMHO having no need for an identity does not necessarily mean you have no identity, one can identify himself as an artist even when no man has ever seen his drawings or seen him draw.

Sense of identity? similar to Bugle, I identify myself as how others perceive me as (my actions, my looks, my personality, etc) and how I see myself (my thoughts, my memories, my knowledge, etc).

I don't consider my culture/nationality to be part of my identity, though they may affect my actions/my thoughts which others may identify me as...

But now that I think about it, people may identify me by my nationality (especially in a foreign country), in that case, it would be part of my identity in the eyes of those people.