What do you think of the death penalty?

[SonicTempest]

Just to toss in my 2 cents before everyone starts ripping each other to shreds:

I'm personally not a big fan of the death penalty. I don't think the crime of smuggling drugs is commensurate with having your life ended. That's not to say that it's a good thing to do - the aggregate effects of letting just one packet of heroin leak into the populace can be quite devastating.

STILL, does a human being have the absolute right to dictate what the length of another's life should be? I personally don't think so. Unless people are at war (which is clearly not the case here, unless you characterise the situation as some sort of bizarre war on drugs), people should not have the power to end others' lives. Does it really make sense to have one's life, even if he is a criminal, in the hands of a small group of people or (in Singapore's case) a single person?

I can think of some extenuating circumstances - for instance, the men who brought death to millions of Jews, Gypsies and supposed "inferior" peoples during the Holocaust probably deserved to die. However, is something like this ever likely to occur again? I doubt it.

Plus, from what I can hear - death row can be psychological torture even for hardened criminals. Yes, I'm pretty sure quite a few of the people there are completely guilty of their sins, but does that give us the right to inflict such a harrowing experience on them?

IMHO, inflicting such a painful experience on them is to sink to their level.

Admittedly my case for not supporting the death penalty is rather weak. It's more of an emotional conviction than anything. Or maybe it's just my cynicism about Singapore surfacing after all this time. Meh, whatever.

Oh yeah and
admin mode on
Play nice - if this thread degenerates into flaming I WILL close it.
admin mode off

[Fuu]

death is too much an emotional response - let's say, someone killed my child. The pain and the anger would make me want to torture him, to tear apart his flesh, and to kill him.
That's why there's the law. I would want a crude revenge, and then the law must(should) intervene to make sure that we don't act like beasts. The beasts that we still are, though.
I'm against death penalty because death is vengeance, and i think modern civilizations should be better than that.

[Eczema]

Oh good lord........


Rape is an act of hostility and aggression; not an expression of sexual desire. Rapists are not raping woman (or men or whatever) because they're so unbelievably attracted to them - their doing it for the sense of power or control over the victim (and in some truly fucked up cases the thrill of debasing and torturing them). The sexual aspect of the crime is merely the weapon the perpetrator uses - not the desired result. Rape is an act of violence.

That is your opinion and I respect that, but I don't think you should go around stating it as fact, IMO.

[AcidicEnema]

and i think modern civilizations should be better than that.

Modern civilisation should be a lot of things. We let billions of people die of hunger while food rots in our silos. We blow each other up because we don't agree with each others politics, and still fling insults at one another even if we do. The most powerful, and one of the most liberal nations in the world locks up people without trial, because it is necessary. The most populous nation in the world locks people up without trial and reeducates them, because it can.

Let us not kid ourself about what modern civilisation should, or should not do. We let one of history's nightmares wage total war on the world 50 years ago, because most of the powers in the west believed that modern civilisations do not oust treaty breaking dictators.

[Fuu]

I'm well aware of that and i agree with you, however i was considering death penalty as one of the many contradictions of the 'advanced democracies' in power, sadly not the main issue by a long shot.

[Sheba]

Oh good lord........


Rape is an act of hostility and aggression; not an expression of sexual desire. Rapists are not raping woman (or men or whatever) because they're so unbelievably attracted to them - their doing it for the sense of power or control over the victim (and in some truly fucked up cases the thrill of debasing and torturing them). The sexual aspect of the crime is merely the weapon the perpetrator uses - not the desired result. Rape is an act of violence.

That is your opinion and I respect that, but I don't think you should go around stating it as fact, IMO.

Jesus....
Fucking...
Christ...

[Gunsmith]

this is great stuff! My baiting was totally unnecessary!

*chomps on the popcorn*

[Apathy Wind]

That is your opinion and I respect that, but I don't think you should go around stating it as fact, IMO.

It's more than my opinion. It's what I learned in four years of college studying criminality and criminal justice. So while I don't pretend to be an expert on the subject I'm fairly certain that results of the various scientific studies I was exposed to are a smidge more valid than just one's everyday opinion. And it helps that what I learned in those college days has been fully supported by what I've seen in the subsequent years I've spent working with crime victims - including numerous rape victims.

I'm not trying to slam you for your statement - it's just that I really think you have an incomplete understanding of the subject. And when the subject's something like rape, misunderstandings can hurt alot of people.

[SonicTempest]

Oh good lord........


Rape is an act of hostility and aggression; not an expression of sexual desire. Rapists are not raping woman (or men or whatever) because they're so unbelievably attracted to them - their doing it for the sense of power or control over the victim (and in some truly fucked up cases the thrill of debasing and torturing them). The sexual aspect of the crime is merely the weapon the perpetrator uses - not the desired result. Rape is an act of violence.

That is your opinion and I respect that, but I don't think you should go around stating it as fact, IMO.

From Wikipedia:

Rapist profiles

Dr. A. Nicholas Groth, author of Men Who Rape: The Psychology of the Offender, described four types of deliberate rapists, based on their motivations and behavior patterns. Forensic scientists, criminologists, and law enforcement agencies often use these profiles to analyze rapists, and prevent future rapes.

Since rapes are predominantly perpetrated by men, a male perpetrator is assumed in these profiles:

* The power-assertive rapist: This is argued to be the most common type of rapist, accounting for about 40 percent of all reported rapes. An alpha male, he tends to value machismo and physical aggression, and often rapes victims that he meets in places like bars, where he may pose as, or be, an authority figure. Power-assertive rapists rarely target specific people for rape and, while not intending to kill their victims, often traumatize and humiliate them.

* The power-reassurance rapist: Responsible for about 27.5% of reported rapes, this type of rapist has been described by law enforcers as the "gentleman rapist". He is usually:
o of average intelligence;
o not physically aggressive;
o insecure about his masculinity;
o socially-deficient; and
o unable to develop interpersonal or romantic relationships.

Usually, he will select and stalk a victim before committing the crime. The victim is usually someone whom he knows, eg. a neighbor or work acquaintance. Power-reassurance rapists often force the victim to emulate foreplay, and take "trophies" of the rape; they may even record the event in a personal journal. Power-reassurance rapists tend to be the least violent type of rapists, often fantasizing about consensual sexual relationships with women, rather than violent conquests.

* Anger-retaliatory rapist: Responsible for about 28% of rapes, this type of rapist is often a substance abuser, with impulsive behavior and anger-related pathologies. He does not target specific victims, and often feels animosity toward women in general. The anger-retaliatory rapist's attacks are usually spontaneous and brutal, and while he does not intend to kill the victim, he may beat her to death if she resists. This rapist usually has below-average intelligence, and is likely to leave more evidence than other types of rapists.

* The anger-excitation rapist: This type of rapist, considered the most dangerous and elusive, accounts for about 4.5 percent of rapes. He exhibits antisocial personality disorder, and being often perceived as charming and intelligent, makes him rather difficult to catch. The anger-excitation rapist may or may not choose his victims selectively. Often sadistic, he will often murder his victim to prevent her from identifying him, or for his own self-gratification. Ted Bundy was an example of this type of rapist.

Where does it say anything about sexual desire in there? All I see is a whole lot of information linking rape to male aggressiveness.

[AcidicEnema]

"And when the subject's something like rape, misunderstandings can hurt alot of people."

I lolled at this sentence.

[Eczema]

so do you ppl believe that NO sexual desire is present in rapes? Even if it's the illusion of power that acts as the aphrodisiac, arousal must obviously be present for a rape to even occur.

[Shiny]

this is great stuff! My baiting was totally unnecessary!

*chomps on the popcorn*

Hold on, the good part's coming up..

[SonicTempest]

so do you ppl believe that NO sexual desire is present in rapes? Even if it's the illusion of power that acts as the aphrodisiac, arousal must obviously be present for a rape to even occur.

Arousal != sexual desire. Well, more like the existence of arousal does not imply sexual attraction.

You're essentially saying that the average rapist (odd term, I know) goes "OMFG HAWT CHICK, LET'S RAPE HER!111" which is hardly the case most of the time.

[AcidicEnema]

Ya know. Arguing that rape is about domination and power isn't mutually exclusive from arguing that rapists would rather rape hot chicks than fuglies.

[SonicTempest]

Ya know. Arguing that rape is about domination and power isn't mutually exclusive from arguing that rapists would rather rape hot chicks that fuglies.

Admittedly there is some overlap. What puzzles me is that Chibi K appears to think that the latter is always the case.


...what was this thread about again? @_@