KOF XIV-Chin Gentsai

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Yuki Yagami
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KOF XIV-Chin Gentsai

Post by Yuki Yagami » Fri Mar 11, 2016 06:24

Drunk old man...

Movelist

Throws

Commands

Specials
Niki Kyaku - df .K
Suiho - qcb .K
_Getsuga Soushuu - .K
Getsuga Chougeki - qcb .P
Inshuu - rdp .P

Desperation Moves
Toukou Hiten Hou - qcf qcf .P
Gouran Enpou - qcf qcf .K

Climax Desperation Move


Changes from KOF XIII
- Regained his Gouran Enpou (?)

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Re: KOF XIV-Chin Gentsai

Post by Toxic Avanger » Wed Aug 31, 2016 05:12

He went from being the most technical and interesting character of the game to become a one trick phony, urgh. In basically every KoF he could link to close standing Cs (in 94 & 95 is due to their speed, while in the other neo geo games is due to their dn dn punch~ABCD cancel); this is the first KoF EVER where he can't do any interesting whiff punishment and has to stick to a SF2 level combo (someone, confort me)

- Jump is floaty as hell like in 94~95; you don't have the offensive short jump that you had in many kofs.
- Close standing A into cls C is gone since the range where you can cls C is crap. For some reason, I can't cancel cls A into command moves nor specials (have the habit of using it due to frame advantage).
- Crouching B is not cancelable, you can still hit 5 crouching hits if you start by the kick (hurts a lot the scaling of the max mode combo, though). You have a new 'upward' far B, but since the game hit boxes are ultra shady and crappy, don't bet your soul on this.
- Far C got it's range nerfed, and still has that problem vs fore-reads with low pokes; far D got a buffed range and is super cancelable.
- Jumping A, D & CD no longer cross up, jumping C and B still does, feels harder to do it with C than before?
- One of pals keep complaining in XIII that Chin's corner throw was too much. While indeed it was, I kept telling him that without it, Chin would have no "horribly damn scary" way of menacing enemies since all of the other variations were sort of feeble instead. This game marvelously proves me right; he feels so damn harmless here....
- The df D is faster, but lost all options other than not doing it (via holding D). Just like in XIII, if you do nothing from it and gets blocked, you will be comboed to hell. Also you can't burst gauge from it; it's basically a last straw desperate gamble move where you are praying that the opponent doesn't have a clue on what he is doing nor on what you are (well, 70% of the game feels like this).
- The df B, B is seriously bad, it can combo from light attacks but you can't delay it or it will miss. Due to the new shitty angle it has, there is too many damn circumsntances where this one will whiff on an enemy (even when combo it; or rather, specially due to comboing it); there are times where it will even fail from a close standing C. Additionally, you have no time to do anything other than a quick qcb A. The EX one is hardly better: is quicker to come out, but the angle is still bad; it can fail very easily on comple juggles but at least is sort of consistent from max mode bursts. All versions leave you open on block, regardless of follow up or not; the EX version can even be ducked by some characters. BTW, I had the habit of doing early anti airs with df B, B against short jumps; which usually scored me the match and a few claps from the audience, but I haven't been confident on this game hit boxes to try it here.
- Drinking SUCKS ATROCIOUSLY!! 5% increase isn't bad (10% was a little bit too strong); but having to drink 10 times while lossing 2 cups per knock down (aka guard cancel) is beyond stupid; and the cups aren't even kept from round to another (it would make sense if they did since it's hard to drink more than 3 or 4 times per round in a real fight). There is basically no incentivation to drink more than once, after all every time you drink you are losing a chance to chase after the enemy (even with 10% damage increase, losing that chance hurts. It's obviously much worse with that 5%).
- Hcf kick is horrible, no drive cancel means no point to the move except squezing under fireballs (which has too tight timming for such a miserable reward). The B one is not that negative on block, but that doesn't make it good. The EX version lost most of it's mojo, doesn't duck too low and no invincbility, also follow it up with complex stuff is inconsistent. "It can cross up from close range", but if you are playing someone who gets hit oftenly by such an obvious & slow "mix up" (which no mix up as in fact is your only freaking choice), I suggest changing who you play.
- The Qcb punch is still punishable, but since the range of this game sucks the is there pushback, that might be enough to save you. Qcb C lost it's upper body invincibility which sucks and takes A LOT away from Chin. The EX version still has some invincibility, but not being able to convert from it unless it hits grounded hurts a lot, and is damn unsafe so let's not even speak of that.
- The counter still has the problem that sometimes when you use it, due to Chin walking back you are pushed away from the attack's range (my friends complain about this 'counter that dodges', whichi is ridiculous considering I'm the one getting screwed the most); it also still has the problem that there is no combo consistence after it since it keeps hitting at different angles and distances. You can still "drive cancel" it, but you can't drive cancel it with EXes which was the n°1 choice before.
- DMs are "the same", the normal version is combo material only, while the EX versions have invincibility. The EX iron should recovers way faster than it looks when combing, but you are obviously screwed if it gets blocked. There naturally no reason to use the qcf x2 EX, but as a trivia I'll tell you that it can hop over some blocking enemies, some guys might not punish you from blocking this? Climax sucks since his 4 or 5 bar options with it are bad; if you want to burn more gauges, it pays way more to extend with a super cancel Iron Shoulder the regular combos, specially if you are fighting a regular sized enemy which have some pretty juicy options.


Booze powered :
- cr b -> cr A -> df B, B -> Qcb A
+ Probably the first combo you'll try until it gets ingrained into you how easily it can whiff. Same goes for the otherwise dragon punch punisher cls C, df B, B...... Thinking about it, this is it for your no gauge combos? The other alternative is chaining weak attacks x4 and then doing a qcb A. BTW, you can, but of course; super cancel at the end.

- B counter -> df B, B (only the second kick hits) -> Qcb A.
+ Probably your most consistent combo out of an incosistent starter, you need to drive cancel the counter. You can add a super cancel at the end, but needs to be timmed properly (aka, delay the qcb A).

- cls C -> Max mode -> cls C -> df BD -> df B, B -> Qcb AC
+ Boring first position 1 bar max mode, the variations are way more important. The regular df B, B needs to be delayed for everything to work, ingrain that in your heart.

- cls C -> Max mode -> cls C -> df BD -> df B, B -> Qcb A -> Iron Shoulder -> df B, B -> Qcb A
+ Screen position dependant, and can whiff on small characters---- if you are not confident on screen location or the enemy size, simply omit the last df B, B. Also, depending on screen position, you need to do the df B, B immediately (cornered enemy), or an ultra quick small step dash into the df B, B (very far from the "screen corner"). The drop points for the combo are mainly that after the EX kicks you need to delay the regular kicks so that they hit deep, or delay the Qcb A punch so that hits deep as well (or instead). With a little bit of practice is impossible to miss this combo.

- cls C -> Max mode -> cls C -> Qcb AC -> Hcf BD -> Qcb A -> Iron Shoulder -> df B, B -> Qcb A
+ Needs second position or third; it also needs to be somewhat far from the corner (more or less a screen away from the corner), this is otherwise a canned easy to do combo. If you want to do it a single gauge with max activation, change the first Qcb A for an EX. Also, if you have the gauges, you can add an EX iron shoulder at the end as an extension (sometimes needs you to delay the last Qcb A as well). For a simple combo of few parts, it hurts quite a damn lot.

- cls C -> Max mode -> cls C -> Qcb AC -> df BD -> df B, B -> Qcb A -> Iron Shoulder -> df B, B -> Qcb A
+ Corner version of the previous combo; but needs a 3rd position (you can do it from the second position, but you need to omit the EX kicks). If you use the Ex kicks, you need to delay the normal kicks that come after them so that they hit, else they will whiff. Same not about omiting the last df B, B on small enemies, timming can be quite hard on some characters; and you can also extend it with another super cancel at the end to complicate things out.

Notes :
+ His 5 bar climax options sucks, if you want to burn more gauges, it pays more to extend with a super cancel the regular combos specially if you are fighting someone who is easy to df B after the critical wire attack.
+ On the corner, you can do cls C -> activation -> CD -> Hcf BD ; but you gain nothing compared to doing cls C, qcb AC after activation. You can also do cls C -> activation -> CD -> df B, B -> df BD and it will hit in a strange way were you might be able to do something interesting, but I haven't managed to.

He went from being the most technical and interesting character of the game to become a one trick phony. In basically every KoF he could link to close standing Cs (in 94 & 95 is due to their speed, while in the neo geo games is due to their dn dn punch~ABCD cancel); this is the first KoF EVER where he can't do any interesting whiff punishment and has to stick to a SF2 level combo (someone, confort me)

- Jump is floaty as hell like in 94~95; you don't have the offensive short jump that you had in the previous game.
- close standing A into cls C is gone since the range where you can cls C is crap. For some reason, I can't cancel cls A into command moves nor specials (habit of using it due to frame advantage).
- crouching B not cancelable, you can still hit 5 crouching hits if you start by the kick. You have a new upward far B, but since the game hit boxes are ultra shady and crappy, don't bet your soul on this.
- Far C got it's range nerfed, and still has the problem vs fore-reads with low pokes; far D got a buffed range and is super cancelable.
- jumping A, D & CD no longer cross up, jumping C and B still does, feels harder to do with C than before?
- df D is faster, but lost all options other than not doing it (via holding D). just like in XIII, if you do nothing from it, you can be comboed to hell; also you can't burst gauge from it; it's basically a last straw desperate gamble move where you are praying that the opponent doesn't have a clue on what he is doing nor what you are (well, 70% of the game feels like this).
- df B, B is seriously bad, it can combo from light attacks but you can't delay it, due to the new shitty angle it has there is too many damn circumsntances where this one will whiff on an enemy (even when combo it; or rather, specially due to it); there are times where it will even fail from a close standing C. Additionally, you have no time to do anything other than a quock qcb A. The EX one is hardly better, is quicker but the angle is still bad, can fail very easily on juggles but at least is sort of consistence from max mode bursts. All versions leave you open on block, regardless of follow up or not; the EX version can even be ducked by some characters.
- Drinking SUCKS ATROCIOUSLY. 5% increase isn't bad (10% was a little bit too strong); but having to drink 10 while you lossing 2 cups per knock down (aka guard cancel) is beyond stupid; and the cups aren't even kept from round to round (it would make sense if they did since it's hard to drink more than 3 or 4 times in a real fight). There is basically no incentivation to drink more than once, after all every time you drink you are losing a chance to chase after the enemy (even with 10% damage increase, losing that chance hurt. It's obviously worse with 5%).
- Hcf is horrible, no drive cancel means no point to the move except squezing under fireballs (which has too tight timming for such a miserable reward). The B one is not that negative on block, but that doesn't make it good. The EX version lost most of it's mojo, doesn't duck too low and no invincbility, also following it up with complex stuff is inconsistent, it can cross up from close range, but if you are playing someone who gets hit by such an obvious & slow "mix up" (which in fact is your only freaking choice) oftenly, I suggest changing playing who you play.
- qcb punch is still punishable, but since the range of this game sucks the pushback might be enough to save you. Qcb C lost it's upper body invincibility which sucks and takes A LOT away from Chin. The EX version still has some invincibility, but not being able to convert from it unless it hits grounded hurts a lot, let's not even speak that.
- The counter still has the problem that sometimes you use it, and Chin walking back pushes you away the attack range (my friends complain about this, and it's ridiculous considering I'm the one getting screwed the most); it also still has the problem that there is no consistence after it since it keeps hitting at different angles. You can still "drive cancel" it, but you can't drive cancel it with EXes which was the n°1 choice before.
- DMs are "the same", the normal version is combo material only, while the EX versions have invincibility. The EX iron should recovers way faster than it looks when combing, but are obviously screwed if it gets blocked. There obviously no reason to use the qcf x2 EX, but as a trivia I'll tell you that it can hop over some blocking enemies, some guys might not punish you from blocking this? Climax sucks.

Booze powered :
- cr b -> cr A -> df B, B -> qcb A
+ Probably the first combo you'll try until it gets ingrained unto you how easily it can whiff. same goes for cls C, df B, B...... Thinking about it, this is it for your no gauge combos? the other alternative is chaining weak attacks and then doing a qcb A. You naturally can super cancel at the end.

- B counter -> df B, B (only the second kick hits) -> qcb A.
+ Probably your most consistent combo out of an incosistent starter, you need to drive cancel the counter. you can add a super cancel at the end, but needs to be timmed properly (aka, delay the qcb A).

- cls C -> Max mode -> cls C -> df BD -> df B, B -> qcb AC
+ Boring first position 1 bar max mode, the variations are way more important.

- cls C -> Max mode -> cls C -> df BD -> df B, B -> qcb A -> Iron Shoulder -> df B, B -> qcb A
+ screen dependant, and can whiff on small characters; if you are not confident on screen location or the enemy size, omit the last df B, B. Depending on screen position, you need to do the df B, B immediately (cornered enemy), or an ultra quick small step dash into the df B, B (very far from the screen corner). The drop points for the combo is that after the EX kicks you need to delay the regular kicks so that they hit deep, or delay the punch so that hits deep. With a little bit of practice is impossible to miss this combo.

- cls C -> Max mode -> cls C -> Qcb AC -> Hcf BD -> Qcb A -> Iron Shoulder -> df B, B -> Qcb A
+ Needs second position or third; it also needs to be somewhat far from the corner (more or less a screen away from the corner), this is otherwise a canned easy to do combo. If you want to do it a single gauge with max activation, change the first qcb A for an EX. Also, if you have the gauges, you can add an EX iron shoulder at the end as an extension (sometimes needs you to delay the last Qcb A as well). For a simple combo of few parts, it hurts quite a damn lot.

- cls C -> Max mode -> cls C -> Qcb AC -> df BD -> df B, B -> Qcb A -> Iron Shoulder -> df B, B -> Qcb A
+ Corner version of the previous combo; but needs a 3rd position (you can do it from the second position, but you need to omit the EX kicks). If you use the Ex kicks, you need to delay the normal kicks that come after them so that they hit, else they will whiff. Same not about omiting the last df B, B on small enemies, timming can be quite hard on some characters; and you can also extend it with another super cancel at the end to complicate things out.

- cls C -> Max mode -> CD -> Hcf BD -> df BD -> Qcb AC -> Qcb A.
+ You must not cancel the CD, link the Hcf after it. This combo is weird as hell; it's slightly better than the first Max mode combo (which needs a first position); but it has the super ultra deluxe detail that it will basically ONLY WORK PERFECTLY on the screen distance where you don't have any other 3rd position exclusive combo (roughly a screen away from the corner, making it a damn screen positioning luxury). The bad thing about this combo is that improvising it with a more gauges version is not really profitable, so rather than learning the intrincancies of this combo you are probably stikcing to a first position combo when the other combos will fail; I only put this one here since if there is someone who is asking themselves if max mode activation -> CD is good with Chin (it isn't).

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Re: KOF XIV-Chin Gentsai

Post by Wolfie » Wed Aug 31, 2016 12:40

Played him first time last night & noticed he'd lost his Sake toss. Whats up with that? That is his signature move! And whats wrong with others too eg: Vice hcf+P is missing here.

Anyhow, I used alot of Chin in 02. And you are right he is suck & useless in this game.

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Re: KOF XIV-Chin Gentsai

Post by Toxic Avanger » Wed Oct 19, 2016 05:38

- You can now cancel close stand A (How exciting! ¬¬ ).
- Iron Shoulder DM got a damage nerf (obviously).


..... Where are all the actual freaking changes he needs to get some freaking consistency? D:

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