Syo Hayate

Strats, combos, technical discussion.
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Slapper Joe
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Post by Slapper Joe » Thu May 04, 2006 07:16

Safe and Syo don't go together unless you are a full screen away. Spamable and Syo don't go together at all.

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Post by Derrace » Thu May 04, 2006 08:40

Slapper Joe wrote:Safe and Syo don't go together unless you are a full screen away. Spamable and Syo don't go together at all.
... nvm, i would just go test it out myself for the BnB combos.

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Post by AcidicEnema » Thu May 04, 2006 09:03

Er, the starter combo you wanna work with is d.B>s.D> qcb+K> qcb+K (whiff)> DP+D. Works anywhere on the screen, i think. In the corner you don't have to whiff the second qcb+K.

As Slappa pointed out, d.B>s.D is his best chain.

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Post by Derrace » Thu May 04, 2006 09:57

AcidicEnema wrote:Er, the starter combo you wanna work with is d.B>s.D> qcb+K> qcb+K (whiff)> DP+D. Works anywhere on the screen, i think. In the corner you don't have to whiff the second qcb+K.

As Slappa pointed out, d.B>s.D is his best chain.
thanks bro. I havent had a chance to test him, and I don't even know what the animation is like for each move. From what I have read, he has a df C and back C? I would try that combo first so I can have a least a chance of doing some decent damage when selecting him....

thanks once again.

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Post by Tel » Thu May 04, 2006 14:47

Slapper Joe wrote:Safe and Syo don't go together unless you are a full screen away. Spamable and Syo don't go together at all.
Sadly, that's true. Hayate's bottomfeeding because he doesn't have anything remotely safe or at least very damaging aside from his multirang DM. And unfortunately, the multirang isn't invincible, so whacking him when he jumps at the start nullifies whatever its uses as a defensive move. The homerang is slow as heck, and about the only time I can think of using it is after downing one opponent. There's only so long you can spam his boomerangs before you get predictable, and all his moves have horrible recovery if whiffed. Some are okay on block, but whiffing a move is very bad. And Hayate is less than gracious when it comes to taking damage.

Then again, of all the Kizuna Encounter characters, Jyazu and Hayate were the ones I totally disliked, and unfortunately, both of them are in XI. So I'm kinda biased against them. At least I'm pretty good with Jyazu although I hate using him. I like Hayate a little more, but I totally suck with him.

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Post by Slapper Joe » Thu May 04, 2006 23:55

AcidicEnema wrote:Er, the starter combo you wanna work with is d.B>s.D> qcb+K> qcb+K (whiff)> DP+D. Works anywhere on the screen, i think. In the corner you don't have to whiff the second qcb+K.
You don't have to wiff the air drop in most of the circumstances. You can't do it from the other end of the screen, but otherwise it's just different timing on the dropdown to get it. It's only an extra 3 or so damage but you can land it consistantly if you watch and time it (hence the no spam stuff, all his combos above hit, hit, special requires being on the ball and good timing otherwise it's a free combo against you.)

I'm not totally sold on dp+B being safe either, but safest yes. The air zoom when spaced just right seems okay as well, people should be avoiding that though.

Bottomfeeder yes, but there are some characters he still does well against. Latest one on the list is Eiji (rushdown or turtle.) Wierd that.

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Post by AcidicEnema » Fri May 05, 2006 20:03

I believe that the recovery from Multirang can be cancelled with a roll. I hit roll right after throwing the multirang, and Syo rolls, even when it looks like he's still recovering.

Today's the most success I've had with Hayate ever, even getting good fights against KGOs, particularly Gato and Oswald who really have problems getting in against a Hayate who insists on running away until they get knocked down by a boomerang.

Runaway game works by whoring backhop> boomerang, back jump air boomerang, and run rollpast-backhop away / super jump across the screen / max height air d+C to switch sides once you reach a corner. Don't sweat the fact that you can't throw another boomer while your boomer is still out and screw it up by closing too much distance. Just keep distance while waiting for the boomer to come back. The aim isn't to throw a lot of them, but to keep yourself risk-free while trying to land a knocksdown boomerang, setting up the wake up game.

The backhop is the best move in Hayate's arsenal. :o Its ghey as hell, but honestly, it's the only way I've gotten his character to 'work'.

Once the boomer knocks them down, wake up game by mixing up cross up jump B, d.B>s.D, throw and b+C. His throw is one of the best in the game, giving him tons of time to set the wake up.

Slappa, I'm not quite feeling the d.B>s.D>qcb+K>qcb+K> hcb+P *2. You mentioned that you time the air drop so that you hit the opponent as he crosses you? Just checking if I heard that right. Also, if you don't whiff the air drop, how many hits does the DP+ D connect? I can only get 1. Do you get the full 3-4 hits?

JHUN, Scruffy mentioned seeing that bug in a vid. Apparently its possible to stay off screen and throw boomerangs all day. How abusable this bug really is, however, remains to be seens. Unlikely that its abusable, especially since you way you described it, it'll probably require cooperation from the opponent to replicate.

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Post by Slapper Joe » Sat May 06, 2006 01:50

AcidicEnema wrote:Slappa, I'm not quite feeling the d.B>s.D>qcb+K>qcb+K> hcb+P *2. You mentioned that you time the air drop so that you hit the opponent as he crosses you? Just checking if I heard that right. Also, if you don't whiff the air drop, how many hits does the DP+ D connect? I can only get 1. Do you get the full 3-4 hits?
When air-drop hits mid screen you can get all the hits of the dp+D (it may actually be 5 hits, seems more in this situation than when against a grounded foe.) Once again it's timing. As long as you are not thinking one move ahead it comes pretty easy.

For the first combo, the opponent should be basically hit by your head while you are coming down with the kick. I can only get this from just less than a half screen from the wall. Also it's qcb+C*2, I shouted a lot at first whenever I tried the move with A and it didn't work. I use the move more as a ground dash fakeout though. If someone decides to get aggressive it stands a pretty good shot at knocking them out of it.

On knockdown I find myself 95% of the time throwing a meaty boomerang because it has a huge success rate. Don't know if it crosses up or not, but it just works, even though everyone knows it's coming.

And talking about dropdown, I've gotten into the habbit of doing qcb+k,hcf+k when using it after a blocked attack. Ensures you come down if you get crossed up. I'll try that roll recovery, I pressume it's not blue flash?

My Syo basically tries to occupy as much space as possible (ground and air.) The goal is to find an opportunity to plant myself in the middle of the screen and get the opponent to do something about it. Most hop offense will be beaten by b+C, pirouet or C boomerang for jumpins and zoom knee for most ground based offence. It has started to become a bit of a running joke around here, Hayate is my crutch. 1st, 2nd or 3rd, leader or not he is the one who causes the problems and stacks up the damage.

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Post by AcidicEnema » Sat May 06, 2006 02:28

Shit. Hayate as a crutch character, lol. Interesting stuff. Will have to experiment against the CPU, sad to say I still don't fully understand the physics of the qcb+K.

Forgot to mention that jump back Boomerang is a hell lot more effective than vertical jump boomerangs (unless one was going for the cross up that you described). The boomerang describes a 'U' arc, going out of the screen then coming from off screen to hit the opponent from below. Not idea if its a low hit, but its gets people so often, all this while you're still airborne and creating distance. If not for the fact that Hayate needs to wait for the returning boomer, it would be Yuri 2k2 bad.

I get what you mean about wake up boomers, I do that too. It mainly works cause of the speed of the damn thing. Most people will think "Alright if he throws that thing, I'll roll i...damn."

qcb+k,hcf+k? Don't you mean qcb+K *2? Not sure if there's any difference between short and roundhouse version too, since you mentioned in an earlier post that using all Ds allows for some combos. Backhop> Boomer has become another option for me after a blocked string>qcb+K*2.

I've become wary of using dp+K as anti-air, especially against characters like KGO. dp+D has liek 0 priority and all the recovery in the world and dp+B gets beaten randomly too by KO jump C and G jump B/D AND is a free combo if it whiffs =\

Pretty sure its not the blue roll. In fact it may be more than just rolls that cancel the animation, cause it feels like simply 'moving' to make sure you don't get the 'catching' animation, like with a normal boomerang.

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Post by Slapper Joe » Sat May 06, 2006 04:02

qcb+k to drop down, if the opponent gets under me (or through the ground qcb+K) Syo doesn't turn around so it's really qcf+K to drop down. The qcb+k, hcf+k is the quickest way to cover both bases. This was happening enough to me to make it an issue.

dp+B does well if done really early, but if on the defensive you would stick to b+C and hope for the best.

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Post by AcidicEnema » Mon May 29, 2006 22:02

Kula's reflect works on the boomerang. She grabs the hitbox out of the boomerang and sends an icepuck back, while the neutered 'rang ambles back. Stupid!

This should've been mentioned awhile back, but while jump D and CD have decent air to air priority, and jump C is an all-around reliable attack, jump B is the go-to move if you don't wanna think. Huge hitbox, fast start up- in air to air, its a terrific air-poke and in air-to-ground it can create ambigious cross ups.

Duck King is another tough match up for him. Dizzying in 2 BnB's is just... wrong. Malin's tough too, for the same reason, but she's easier to keep out, at least. I'd also like to eat my words on Griffon and Maxima being easy fights- Sho (my Sho, at least) get's worked by the random jump Cs/Ds that make their way in. Iori, OTOH, is beatable by baiting and punishing fireballs with air d+C.

Funnily enough, the *only* time i can get d.B>s.D>qcb+K>qcb+K> hcb+P *2 is when I'm nearly full screen away from the wall...

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Post by Slapper Joe » Tue May 30, 2006 02:21

Dude, your not allowed to update this thead!! It's all MINE!! Suppose updates are in order (in my trademarked incoherient point form.)

* I agree with Maxima being stupid hard to fight. s.B has the ability to knock Syo right out of dodge and I still haven't worked out why. Ducks here lose to dodge since it kills float. Ground zoom beats slide games and has a good success rate against early duckroll frames and his j.D.

* Don't forget to dodge supers during blockstun as well since it makes you look uber cool. Griffon clotheslines (as long as he doesn't DC to LDM because that stuff hurts and makes you look like a goose), dodge 2nd hit of Gato's LDM to make him sad (punch can sometimes come out before 3rd hit.) Momokomomohomo and Galatica Phantom are also prime targets for dodge, rolling is for cowards.

* Syo's jumping kicks are acceptable when required, but I rarely jump in with him (why jump when you can zoom?!?!) so j.B doesn't get used much. But honestly j.D does win a lot of air-to-air fights against people above and below him.

* I've been ending combos with the qcb+Cx2 lately when the situation allows it (landing a fair chunk earlier than enemy,) more damage & more style. Multirang -> roll when blocked is safe against Oswald without LDM which is a suprise.

* I mentioned a while back about qcb+K, d+P, launching a bit on landing. Problem is he has nothing fast enough to capitalize in general. But qcb+K, air d+P(4hit), highLDM will land if they get close to the corner, it will just not get forward fast enough outside corner. I guess an A boomerang might work.

* A close lowLDM (no zoom) comes out faster than it looks (looks like it hits before the foot is fully extended). PsuedoStomp ticks (uf~(air)qcb+k, [d+B, qcb+k~(air)qcb+k]) are useable and keeps him at a frame advantage, a lot of effort though.

* air d+P(3block) looks safe but is stupidly hard to get the right height for. 2block isn't as dangerous as 4block, but at that low height you are probably better with j.B or air qcb+K.

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Post by AcidicEnema » Tue May 30, 2006 23:50

Waitaminit, so you're saying that the b+C can be used to *cancel* block stun? Otherwise, I'm not sure how one goes about dodging the second hit of Gato's LDM, after being forced to block the first hit.

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Post by Slapper Joe » Wed May 31, 2006 12:36

Not blockstun, no Gato LDMers here to verify if it works in ideal (for Gato) situations but I have b+Ced the 2nd hit of the CPU's LDM (block first and recover right into b+C.) It might have been a spacing or maybe a CPU issue. Or is it possible for the second to wiff if the first is blocked? My dodge may have just been at the same time. But b+C really is a braindead move, just press C while blocking and hope for the best at random times. It does allow ME get out of things block -> normal roll does not. Of course it is risky against certain characters, typically those who will go about mashing their move/setup regardless of what you are doing. Probably redundant saying this, but Kula c.B's are a perfect example.

What I did forget to mention was the Syo TRUE WIN COMBO:
Crossup j.B, c.A, c.A, c.D -> highLDM
Aweful crossup move into frame links into a cancel that only has a couple of frames where it'll come out. You need to cancel the c.D right after it hits but before there is any trip/float animation.

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Post by AcidicEnema » Thu Jun 01, 2006 21:37

One thing I've wondered for awhile- are the generic throws for all characters 'equal' in terms of range and start up, or do some character's have better generic throws? Cause I find it really easy to connect with Syo's generic throw, more so than with other characters. Other characters that seem to throw easily are Shen Woo and Gato. Could simply have to do with the character's playstyle, option selects and BnB starters tho.

Stand B is good for anti-hop, but only from 1 character space away. Any closer and stand A works better. Far stand D also works pretty well for this. I find that Syo's normal's are better than most, if only because of their ghetto 2 frame animations. Against Kula's hops, Anti-hop normal defensive poking works a *lot* better than trying to DP or b+C her. Get her before those icicles extend. Random layspins and blow job attempts get knockdowned boomeranged, setting up the wake up game.

hcb+C also hits *behind*, making it as unrollable as Oswald's crouch D.

hcb+C *2 is recovery rollable... Not sure if its safe when the opponent forward recovery rolls, but I could've sworn that it wasn't when I saw it.

I stand by my earlier assessment that Sho gives Oswald and Gato good fights. They just have soooo many problems trying to get in, especially Oswald. For that reason alone, there's no way in hell Sho's deadlast in this game.

Jump D is like Duolons- if there is a reason to use it, I'm hard pressed to think of one. Air to air, jump B and jump CD are superior in different situations. Air to ground, jump B and C that shit. Jump CD is a beautiful thing against Malin (especially since that blasted jump C cuts through DP+B). I don't understand why zooming would obselete jumps- jumps are safer, start combos, cross up, while zooming is mainly useful for the angle.

Btw, any difference between A and C air zooms?

If c.D LDM connects, does that mean that the LDM is an all-juggle move? Ah, questions, questions.

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