Top 11 LDMs.

Strats, combos, technical discussion.
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Empyrian
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Top 11 LDMs.

Post by Empyrian » Wed Feb 01, 2006 18:54

I) Gato
II) Malin
III) Kula
IV) Oswald
V) Athena
VI) Jenet/Kasumi
VII) Elizabeth
VIII) Adel
IX) Silber
X) Terry


Other mentions would include: Benimaru, Shingo, Shen and Ash.

Discuss.

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Post by AcidicEnema » Wed Feb 01, 2006 19:16

- Jenet should be better than Kasumi's. Scales much better on DC.

- Ryo's deserves at least a mention. No scaling after dizzy= best damage potential on a comboable LDM.

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Post by frionel » Wed Feb 01, 2006 20:15

Oh and no Duolon for your ranking :o

I think that he's one of the best leader in the game... his combo can kill one oponnent each time it succeed (damage + mind game reseting the damage scalling)

For Malin I totaly agree

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Post by Slapper Joe » Thu Feb 02, 2006 10:22

Are we refering to LDM's by themselves (ignorant of the character's ability to set it up), or how much the LDM powers up the character. I'll asume the former since Gato's couldn't be number one with the second option.

Malin vs Kula
+ Malin - A frame or two faster in execution at close range.
+ Malin - Higher CH damage.
++ Kula - A lot more situations it can be used.
++ Kula - A lot bigger hitbox
++ Kula - Totally 100% invulnerable during the entire thing.

Benimaru vs Elizabeth
+ Benimaru - More practical on the offense
+ Benimaru - Scales better
+ Benimaru - Better damage as AA
- Elizabeth - Impractical DC
- Elizabeth - Bad habit of opponent 'falling out' at range

Power Stream better than DuoLon's, Vanessa's or Ash's CCs??
Better than Clark's or Kyo's grabs??
Doubt it. I'd probably put all of the above ahead of the counters as well.

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Post by shen_vs_galford » Thu Feb 02, 2006 10:40

is AA anti-air? :x

well i dont really agree Power Stream is better than say Kyo's or Eiji's or whatever.


anyone want to start Top 10 Coolest LDMs? :P

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Post by Geese » Thu Feb 02, 2006 14:35

I dont think empyrian is ranking the LDMs....

Remember 1 hit LDMs are sometimes far more useful than multihits or customs like duolons, cos of saving shift. with that in mind here are some that I ranked in my humble opinion

high: Oswald, Kula, Malin, Athena, Beni
mid: Duolon, Jenet, Shingo, Adel, Gato, Terry, Shen, Kyo, Kim, Elisabeth
low: Ryo, Iori, Duck King, Blue Mary, Maxima

These are ranked from the usefulness I personally had in battle. Ryo is low, just because it is tooo slow on startup. Yeah its useful, but only in combos and in combos so can a lot of other characters LDMs. I hope this helps in compiling the list ;)

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Post by Tel » Thu Feb 02, 2006 17:06

It all depends on situations. Here's how I would rank them.

Combos: Kula, Gato, Oswald, Kyo, Ryo, K'
Defence: Elisabeth, Athena, Malin, Oswald
Damage: Shen, Duo Lon, Ash (his Germinar), Oswald, Adel
Overall abusability: Malin, Oswald, King, Elisabeth.

Geese, you have seriously gotta be kidding about Ryo's LDM being low ranked.

As you can see from my ranking, I stuff Oswald as Leader a lot! :grin: Well, what do you expect? Super fast launch speed, high/mid invincibility until half the dash, painful as heck, doesn't suffer from heavy damage scaling due to the high number of hits, and it just looks cool. It's my favourite LDM, and I'm pretty good at getting it to hit. But I wouldn't dare say it's the best LDM in the game though.

If I were to pick 5 LDMs, my best 5 would be (in no particular order)
1. Shen
2. Oswald
3. Athena
4. Elisabeth
5. Malin

I like Kula's LDM a lot, but since I normally use it in combos, I can't say it's my best. And I prefer playing Gato without leader status, because he's badass as he is already.

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Post by Empyrian » Thu Feb 02, 2006 17:54

Yes, I am ranking the LDMs in terms of functionality and its usefulness. You could also say that how much it powers up the character.

I am not sure DL's, Ash's and Vanessa's LDMs are that fantastic to warrant a "top" prefix.

While it is true that they open up possibilites of infinites, you have to input the subseequent motions to deal the "projected damage," while other LDMs, sans using Saving Shift to escape at the beginning deals "guaranteed damage."

And in regards to Kyo's, Clark's and Eiji's LDMs, they are grabs which deal good damage. And? I don't see them having insane speed, invincibility, etc.

Terry's LDM is good cos it gives him an awesome anti air + counter move. His DMs deal terrible damage and are rubbish on priority.

I am quite surprised that people are not rating Gato's LDM that highly.

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Post by AcidicEnema » Thu Feb 02, 2006 19:13

Geese wrote:
low: Ryo, Iori, Duck King, Blue Mary, Maxima
Er. Ryo's on the same levels of Iori's and Duck King's?

:o

Why? Duck King's can only be comboed in the corner (and that requires 1 extra stock and a skill stock), and has only meh-usefulness outside of combos.

Iori's lost all the combobility that made it good in 2k3.

Ryo's can be comboed after a super cancelled DP+C. There's your instant start up invincible LDM into 60%+ combo, right there. Not to mention that it also combos off a d.B and a jump C.

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Post by Slapper Joe » Fri Feb 03, 2006 00:43

Clark's LDM coming out in 1 frame not fast enough?
If you are in range and on the ground it wins. It'll grab you in the middle of the hit frames of moves. It'll grab you during the 'invincible' frames of a roll. The priority of it doesn't even come in to play because of the above. It has a super easy way to land it regardless of situation with the SC off tackle. Clark was given a brand new super just so he has a easy as pie Dream Cancel. It is Hugo's Gigas Breaker (average super) on seriously heavy drugs.

And I won't even talk about Kyo's grabbing off a juggle DC from half a screen away...

Ryo's is still team dependant as I mentioned in the other thread. 3 levels for it then rush DM isn't too hot. Saving shift just kills too many options with it. It basically is like holding up a sign and saying shift the next hit.

Once again. Elizabeth vs Benimaru. Benimaru's is better all around. I cannot think of a single positive of Elizabeth's when the two are compared. Just because it's on a worse character doesn't make it a better LDM.

Edit: I suppose Elizabeth's chips better.
Last edited by Slapper Joe on Fri Feb 03, 2006 02:08, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by furix » Fri Feb 03, 2006 01:00

I think Malin's LDM is the best. Comes out so fast, it can stuff pretty much anything up close, and it has easy comboability, and it's very damaging. Of course, Gato's is pretty damaging too.

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Post by Geese » Fri Feb 03, 2006 02:40

Like I said.... I ranked them to how useful it was when I played with those characters.

Your ryo reasoning doesnt hold still. For instance, imagine you only had 2 supers and one skill gauge. you do the dp C into his LDM, what is the max damage you can do from there? Malin's combo with the LDM will do about the same damage without using the skill gauge even and dont get me started on the damage if its a counter. Dulon's will kill the person just about. So im not saying its useless, Im just saying its lousier when compared to other LDMs

Iori's LDM can be used as anti air as well and in combos similar to ryo (ie DP C into LDM) hence why I rated them together. Duck kings I admit is probably the lousiest, but I only had 3 tiers.

Like I said, and I think emp probably had more criteria for selection, but I rated them with the following considerations

Damage, Comboability, 1hit vs multihit, invincibility frames, ease of use (ie: qcf x2 is easier than bcf b f), ease of hit (ie: oswald high, ryo low), stock usage (ie: shen's needs at least 3 supers and one skill gauge to be useful) and anti air properties

Emp: I actually do rate gato's LDM, but the problem is its usefulness is also limited to combos ie: most of them time it begins with a stand C. It cant be used as an anti air too . But it will probably be a high mid for me.

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Post by Empyrian » Fri Feb 03, 2006 05:20

Elizabeth's LDM do not seem to be punishable. Beni's can. It seems that she has near zero hitbox when the LDM is coming out. I can't say the same for Beni. I also believe that Eliz's LDM does more damage.

Max damage from Ryo would be the Jump C > C > f, b, f C w/o stocks.

Another way is to DC off his Ryuko Ranbu. But 3 stocks 1 skill...

Yes, Gato's LDM has no stellar invincibility to speak of. That is for his DMs to complement/compenstate. Its ability to punish lag and combo prowess along with *wrong* damage leaves a lot of LDMs behind. It is quite scary as a DC too.

The biggest + point: It is risk free. You can CD or AB roll and you still can't punish Gato and at least 50% of your guard crush meter is gone.

Incidentally I was told before that his DC is worthless. XD

The only - point I can think of is, Gato can be used as non leader so as to further promote team synergy. Leave the leader spot to someone who needs it more like Kula or Oswald.

Geese: Actually functionality is a broad term of which the exact meaning is described pretty aptly by your strict criteria. Just add the risk v.s. reward factor in. :p

LDMs which are the gateways to infinites are great. A player able to do the infinite on cue makes LDM a terror.

One can argue the functionality of such LDMs is to drain your entire lifebar. I suppose we are rating different things after all. ;p

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Post by Perfect Stranger » Fri Feb 03, 2006 05:32

Geese wrote:
Emp: I actually do rate gato's LDM, but the problem is its usefulness is also limited to combos ie: most of them time it begins with a stand C. It cant be used as an anti air too . But it will probably be a high mid for me.
Patently untrue.

Gato's LDM guard crushes with ease on the 2nd hit in most situations. Since Gato's LDM doesn't freeze the screen with a DM flash, you have far less reaction time to guard cancel E or guard cancel roll.

Gato's LDM is, as far as I know, also *totally* immune to damage scaling. It does the same amount of damage regardless of how many hits you've tacked on before you do it, and regardless of how little life you have left. This means that it is an *excellent* move for finishing off opponents with little life, since between the guard crush and the large damage of the last hit you're almost guaranted to finish off your opponent.

Add to the fact that Gato builds stock pretty easily, and you've got a LDM that can be spammed more easily than, say, Athena's LDM.

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Post by frionel » Fri Feb 03, 2006 06:11

- I still think that Duolon LDM is one of the tops. There is NO other LDM that makes all this damage with only 2 stocks and one skill level. And the conditions to do it are so easy! And don't tell me about saving shift, cause for all the comboed LDM it's the same (not the grabs and juggled ones), you can still escape just after seing the "flash animation", even if it's on one hit like Malin's one. Seriously, maybe I am not in the good way, but I can't see how I can put another leader than Duolon since he has this decisive killer combo.


- Duck LDM is also an excellent one... ok, it's not really combotable (only in corner, and DC), but it create a new issue in the crazy mind game that can create Duck with his non stop pressing... It's really easy to make the oponent jumping, since it's one of the only ways to escape of his grab DM. And with the distance and priority of his LDM, it's really a powerfull weapon... And if the opponent really fears the LDM, he'll never jump, so you know what you have to do.... I don't say that it's one of the best LDM ever, but it can be REALLY intersting to power up Duck in versus situations.

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