Top 11 LDMs.

Strats, combos, technical discussion.
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Empyrian
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Post by Empyrian » Thu Aug 24, 2006 01:59

Actually Adel's LDM should get a rank downgrade due to the fact that it scales *very* badly in combos.

Although in terms of pure "might," the LDMs of Oswald, Malin and Adel (along with most LDMs with good invincibilty) pwn Gato.

Kula's LDM can be used as a anti fireball move too. It is also pretty awesome as an anti air too.

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Post by Tel » Thu Aug 24, 2006 09:08

Empyrian wrote:Actually Adel's LDM should get a rank downgrade due to the fact that it scales *very* badly in combos.

Although in terms of pure "might," the LDMs of Oswald, Malin and Adel (along with most LDMs with good invincibilty) pwn Gato.

Kula's LDM can be used as a anti fireball move too. It is also pretty awesome as an anti air too.
True about the scaling, but Adel's LDM has invincibility from startup and throughout the entire dash animation. That's more invincibility frames than any other DM besides King's Illusion Dance and Magaki's LDM. And even the Illusion Dance doesn't have invulnerability at startup. I mostly use Adel's LDM as a twitch move.

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Post by AcidicEnema » Thu Aug 24, 2006 11:42

True, Adel's LDM scales badly in combos, but even more so than Malin's I don't see comboing as a use for Adel's LDM at all. The whole point of it is that once Adel has 2 stocks, so many moves become unsafe against him that many characters get crippled.

Not to sure about the invincibility tho. Stranger says he's seen it get stuffed by down Bs and that's the version that's supposed to have a longer invulnerability window (where Rose comes out).

Is it possible to mix up between cross-up/non-cross up against incoming characters? I've found that blocking cross up almost always does the trick (and that's the only time when its punishable).

The problem with Kula's LDM as anti-air is that its too slow to be good anti-hop its hitbox is wrong to hit high jumpers. In fact, I never understand people who use it as anti-air since Diamond Edge MAX is way better.

TT: So you're saying that if you're near Kula when LDM is blocked, you can punish her?

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Post by Tel » Fri Aug 25, 2006 03:48

AcidicEnema wrote: The problem with Kula's LDM as anti-air is that its too slow to be good anti-hop its hitbox is wrong to hit high jumpers. In fact, I never understand people who use it as anti-air since Diamond Edge MAX is way better.

TT: So you're saying that if you're near Kula when LDM is blocked, you can punish her?
You gotta be kidding. I use Kula's LDM to snuff jumpers/hoppers like nobody's business. Just fire up the LDM when opponent is about to hit you and WHAM! It's only weakness is against cross-ups. You can literally pull this off when opponents attack is touching Kula and she won't be harmed at all.

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Post by ~!T.T!~ » Fri Aug 25, 2006 04:59

AcidicEnema wrote:TT: So you're saying that if you're near Kula when LDM is blocked, you can punish her?
not exactly. If you're close to her, and you see LDM coming and roll before LDM comes out, then you can punish her if you get in before diana finishes running through the screen. However I'm still unsure if you can see LDM, roll and punish though

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Post by Perfect Stranger » Sat Aug 26, 2006 05:49

AcidicEnema wrote:
Not to sure about the invincibility tho. Stranger says he's seen it get stuffed by down Bs and that's the version that's supposed to have a longer invulnerability window (where Rose comes out).
I'm going to have to take this back - my entire argument for why I thought the LDM version with Rose coming out could be stuffed by dwn bs was because previously I'd never seen any of the Adel users do the version where Rose *doesn't* come out. I have, however, seen Sore Loser do just that recently, so maybe those times where I stuffed the LDM with Oswald's dwn b, he really was doing the version where Rose doesn't come out. I don't understand why he would do that, but apparently he does, so.

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Post by Empyrian » Tue Oct 03, 2006 17:33

Repost:

Regarding Gai's LDM, it is actually not bad. Assuming the 1st characters of both sides have been KOed, via a QS (blocked or not), if you manage to call in Gai and activate his LDM, this would mean the opponent has to take on a full life Gai one on one.

If Gai manages to beat the opponent, you now have 2 skills and 2 stocks at the very least. With 2 skill stocks, Gai can easily stun anyone in offense and if you wish, you can keep him for last with SS.

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Post by AcidicEnema » Sat Oct 14, 2006 20:04

From the looks of the mongogo vids (thanks to Blastrezz for archiving them), it looks like the whole of Japan is suddenly using Ryo leader. Mainly cause of its awesome synergies with Kula.

(Kula) Layspin> f+D> (QS Ryo)> LDM> jump C> s.C> f+A> (QS) Kula> jump C> stand C> qcf+A> qcb+B> A Diamond Edge (you build up 1 levels stock in the course of the QS combo).

Layspin pokes are disgusting things.

Oh yeah, and I did mention somewhere else that Ryo/Oswald have a 2 stock 1 skill 100%, easy to pull off in competitive match combo, didn't I?

*moves to move Ryo's LDM into top 10 position*

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Post by Empyrian » Sun Oct 15, 2006 05:27

Arcademongogo is Taiwanese based.

However, Kaoru did win the KOF XI tournament (I stress that it is in Arrange mode) held by SNKP recently using Kula/Ryo(as leader). XD

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Post by AcidicEnema » Sun Oct 15, 2006 06:14

Ooops. I blame my Foucault notes for making me confuse mongogo and Henvoke!

But yeah, I can imagine that Ryo LDM would be one of the top LDMs in arrange mode, after all the all-juggle moves have lost their all-juggle property. Its nowhere near as good as Malin's, Adel's and Silber's as a twitch move, but its definately better for combos. And while in terms of damage, it isn't as good as Duo Lon's and arguably, Ash's, its *a lot* more tournament friendly/harder to screw up, and easier to set up via QS, etc...

(Remember's Hu Ye's famous LDM combo screw up in the Taiwanese SBO qualifiers)

... while mostly, anyway.

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Post by Empyrian » Sun Oct 29, 2006 18:39

Apart from rolling away, one can also use fireballs to negate the downward lunge of Athena's LDM.

After that... lalala. XD

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Post by Makashi_Menace » Mon Oct 30, 2006 16:34

Empyrian wrote:Apart from rolling away, one can also use fireballs to negate the downward lunge of Athena's LDM.

After that... lalala. XD
You mean a normal fireball (eg Kensou's Qcb A) can negate the diving bird?

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Post by Slapper Joe » Tue Oct 31, 2006 01:10

Yeah the bird is basically a projectile. It hitting with another projectile will cancel the hit. She will continue down as the bird but it won't hit. So c bomerang or b bullets are the best thing to test this with (Sho and Jyazu both have better options though).

Just running towards Athena right after she leaves the ground is the safest option. Autoguard moves will still guard the unblockable part. Counters are obvious (LDM's, Gato's air counter, standard high counters.)

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Post by Makashi_Menace » Wed Nov 01, 2006 17:01

Awww... I'd have thought that it'll take at least a DM projectile to negate it.

I normally run/roll to avoid it.

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Post by Empyrian » Wed Nov 01, 2006 17:32

The downward lunge of Athena's LDM should not be considered a projectile as it can be countered by counter moves...

So in other words, it is an uber one hit move. XD

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