Whip

Strats, combos, technical discussion.
Lynko
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Post by Lynko » Sun Aug 06, 2006 20:53

I agree, she's LOW, but not THE lowest. She's alot better than she was in 2k3, but obviously far far from her 2k-2k2 days.

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Post by Ghostpilot » Thu Aug 10, 2006 18:49

Kane317 wrote:After playing against her extensively, and playing around with her myself--if used correctly, she can pretty competant and hold her own. Hence, I believe she's AT least a B/C rank, definitely not the E rank I keep seeing posted around the forums. Yay/nay?
I think she's one of the characters who truly deserves an E Rank. In previous KoF's, there wasn't too many ways of escaping things like her f+A's and capitalize without burning a meter. Now there's more ways to do it than ever, cheaper than ever.

In addition, the lengthy recovery was in place to balance out the fact that she had so much range and that he whip didn't have a hitbox. With a bigger stage to play with, the whip's range isn't as effective, and it now appears to have a hitbox...meaning that you can hit her by attacking the whip. When she does her jumping C, she arguably has the largest hitbox in the game.

She doesn't put out the damage to make up for the overwhelming amount of recovery she has after just about everything she does (heaven help you if you miss a Boomerang Shot [qcf+P] :o ).

With her priority shot, her ungodly recovery, low damage output, and her whip having a hitbox, she's just begging to get rushed down.

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Post by Lynko » Tue Aug 15, 2006 15:50

Oh, random note, her gun's bullets can actually negate DM projectiles XD (I honestly never tried this before, and Ryo's AI decided to throw out the ungodly slow version of Haohshokoken and I was like "What the hey!"!) I don't think it's much use anywho though because he still recovers before you do, and if it was like this in older KoFs, everyone would recover YEARS before she does.

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Post by J]-[UN » Tue Aug 15, 2006 17:56

Actually she has pretty high damage...random crossup JumpCs and simple standB, dwnB, boomerang does quite a lot of damage, more than Kyo even.

Her problem is simply that she has no good air to air moves, and with XI being such a jump-happy game , that turns out to be a huge disadvantage. Even her jump A and B loses to everything. Her JumpE is really good, but you have to do it from very far.

Her DM and boomerang have no priority anymore either, and even though dwnC is a good anti -air, it has to be done before the opponent launches a move, so she has basically no options after getting knocked down (unless she's Leader).

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Kane317
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Post by Kane317 » Wed Aug 16, 2006 19:20

J]-[UN wrote:Actually she has pretty high damage...random crossup JumpCs and simple standB, dwnB, boomerang does quite a lot of damage, more than Kyo even.

Her problem is simply that she has no good air to air moves, and with XI being such a jump-happy game , that turns out to be a huge disadvantage. Even her jump A and B loses to everything. Her JumpE is really good, but you have to do it from very far.

Her DM and boomerang have no priority anymore either, and even though dwnC is a good anti -air, it has to be done before the opponent launches a move, so she has basically no options after getting knocked down (unless she's Leader).
My 'Whip' friend (RJ-Ramon) has been waiting for me to post a reply for ages.

Her DM is utter crap, I'll give you that, but believe me when I say the boomerang is just as useful if not better than before (she does not need the DM at all). Zoned correctly, she's a nuances to play against. Jump D is an excellent air-to-air, so is Jump E with an air-to-ground attribute also. Jump C is pure annoyance. Far C is good (yes you read it), especially if you try to roll in and when you're playing against a good zoner, you're always tempted to roll.

She definitely does decent damage. Haha my friend must be excited to read this post (he just trolls but never posts), he always keeps saying, "I should just record my matches".

I still stand by what I say, Whip's a C/B character.

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Post by J]-[UN » Thu Aug 17, 2006 03:55

Jump D blows chunks...

Jump C is pretty much the same as always

FarC can be seen coming out a mile away , one roll and ur dead

Boomerang shot can't be used on wake up anymore which is its biggest flaw.
If you wanna zone , I'd rather use crouchingC into boomerang shot, free dmg.

Whip fares better against players who try to zone, its rushdown she has problems defending against.

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Post by Kane317 » Thu Aug 17, 2006 08:00

J]-[UN wrote:Jump D blows chunks...

Jump C is pretty much the same as always

FarC can be seen coming out a mile away , one roll and ur dead

Boomerang shot can't be used on wake up anymore which is its biggest flaw.
If you wanna zone , I'd rather use crouchingC into boomerang shot, free dmg.

Whip fares better against players who try to zone, its rushdown she has problems defending against.
Jump D is a sufficient if used/timed correctly.

If you try to roll a Far C, opponents usually get hit by the 'second' hit of the far C. It's not like it's unrollable, but typically Far C is used if they try to roll (however Far C is not a good poke by itself). Dwn C is a good alternative cancel into Boomerang or Boomerang~Cancel.

Boomerang if timed correctly, also stops hoppers.

I think intially, Whip seems to lack a lot of counter moves against S tier characters, but after experimenting thoroughly, she definitely deserves a C (and I think a low B), not E.

People often rely too much on her DM, and since it sucks this year, people thinks she's crappy. Fact of the matter is, she's just as good without her DM and her DM isn't necessary in her gameplay this year.

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Post by AcidicEnema » Thu Aug 17, 2006 16:32

The best player I've seen to use her (the guy known as 'Alien' for all you Sg players) basically zones and keeps the opponent in the max range of the jump E, only closing distance if he knows he can land a cross up hop C. Played correctly you never get in the range where Gato can jump D you repeatedly.

Hop E is a *wicked* zoning tool. I've seen him beat some really good Gato's that way. Of course, novelty was on his side, and he *is* once of the best damn players around.

Otherwise, I tend to agree with JHUN. Jump D and Boomerang just don't make the cut once the hop game comes into play.

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Post by J]-[UN » Thu Aug 17, 2006 18:45

Yeah , most of the better Whips here tend to play keep away most of the time, and when they get close they do stuff like stand B, dwnB *pause* dwnC or jumpC before fleeing again.

Using Gato to counter her zoning is pretty easy though, just mix up a bunch of qcbA As and Bs. If the Counter hits from too far away, it won't hit whip but at least you don't get knocked down either, but if it does hit, or if the dash gets through, she's into Gato spamJumpD range >.<

About the farC , usually people roll around the moment the 1st hit of the farC animation "hits", so they come out of the roll right after the 2nd "hit" ends...leaving her wide open >.<

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Post by Perfect Stranger » Thu Aug 17, 2006 18:49

J]-[UN wrote: Using Gato to counter her zoning is pretty easy though, just mix up a bunch of qcbA As and Bs. If the Counter hits from too far away, it won't hit whip but at least you don't get knocked down either, but if it does hit, or if the dash gets through, she's into Gato spamJumpD range >.<
Not entirely sure, but I think if Gato tries to do his Counter move on Whip's Jump E from maximum range, it won't hit Whip, and Whip will land first with frame advantage.

The thing about Alien's Whip's Jump E is when you see her hopping, you think "She's too far away, none of my moves will hit her", then the E pops out and you suddenly get hit. Forcing yourself to just pull off an uppercut or something by force works sometimes, but you'll trade just as often. Only think I've been able to do against Alien's Whip's Jump E is Oswald's Royal Flush (moon slash super) - Even my twitchy Kula uppercut doesn't shut down the hop E game very well.

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Post by J]-[UN » Fri Aug 18, 2006 03:43

Whip will land first, but from that range its very rare that she'll be in a position to punish Gato since there's quite a bit of distance to run and Gato recovers in like half a second upon landing

The only time I've been able to counter Gato's qcbA,B is when the opponent does it really near and I (accidentally) hit it with something quick like a crouching/standing A, then block. Theres no time to run forward or anything, so unless he lands right next to me the most I can retal with is with a single hit move :cry:

Eiji's retarded qcfA stops JumpE from a distance really well too =.=; Though some people would just dish out the fireball DM as soon as they see anything jump :/

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Post by Franz Bonaparta » Sat Sep 09, 2006 19:47

FRANZ' ULTIMATE WHIP COMBOS:
BnB
stand B, stand B, down+B, hcf+Punch
Stand B, Stand B, down+B, qcb,hcf+ Punch DM or E LDM or DM DC to LDM
Stand D/Stand C/Down+C, (fwd+A)*3
Down+C, (fwd+A)*3 Hcf+Punch(only 1 hit is guranteed outside corner)
Down+C, (fwd+A)*3 qcfx2 Punch DM... DC if u want but dmg is heavily scaled

JUMP-IN Combos:
Jump C + any combos listed above... please note that if you dont do your jump C deep enough, u might want to omit one stand B. eg. Jump C, stand B, down+B, HCF+Punch... doing 2 stand Bs and one down B might screw ur combos up sometimes.

CROSS UP COMBOS:
Cross up C, Stand BX2, down+B to HCF+Punch, QCB,HCF+P DM or LDM
Cross up C, Down+C, (fwd+A)x3, HCB+B to:
-QCB,HCF+P DM. QCB,HCF+ E LDM or DM Dc. LDM
-stand Bx2, down B to either: HCF+P,QCB,HCF+P DM or LDM

The combos listed above are pretty hard to do, since Whip's jump C suks ass now. Please note that doing down+C, Fwd+A x 3, HCB+B is damn difficult. The three fwd+As wont cause a knockdown when its QUICKLY chained after down+C, be it QSed-in, Jumped-In or crossed up with C to down+C. In order to do Cross Up C, down+C, fwd+A x 3, HCB+B, u have to take advantage of 3rd FwdA's huge hitstun. Input the HCB+B just before the 3rd Fwd A finishes, hold B, move slightly forward, release B. But you have to do it fast *input,walk,release*...u'll get the picture....

MISC WHIP COMBOS:
Throw, rdp+P Desert eagle

Down+D, rdp+P Desert Eagle

Far Stand C (1st hit), HCB+B to either:
-QCB,HCF+P DM. QCB,HCF+ E LDM or DM Dc. LDM
-stand Bx2, down B to either: HCF+P,QCB,HCF+P DM or LDM

(CORNER)Stand D/Stand C, Fwd+A x 3 ,(rdp+P)x6 de eagle(only 3 bullets will hit ha!!)

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Post by leiloban » Mon Sep 11, 2006 06:33

Down+C, (fwd+A)*3 Hcf+Punch(only 1 hit is guranteed outside corner)

I wouldn't recommend doing boomerang shot unless she's at either corner
since people can foward roll after the hit. rdp+punch would be the better
choice. Aside from down+C, Fwd+A x 3, HCB+B crossup combo, I don't really
have much trouble doing the combos although my standard combo for her
is stand B, stand B, down+B, hcf+Punch. Stand C/Down+C, (fwd+A)*2
mostly for q-shifting. I'd opt out on doing any DMs with her (unless she's my
last character) just cuz she's not that good at bulding up the power guage.
Besides, Whip has a good wake-up game after stand B, stand B, down+B,
hcf+Punch.



(CORNER)Stand D/Stand C, Fwd+A x 3 ,(rdp+P)x6 de eagle

Will that hit against other people? I know it works in practice mode but 3 timesi've done it against someone and only 1 hit landed. dp+punch would be the safer choice or if Whip's backed in the corner, hcb+b > stand+b, stand+b, down+b, dp+punch instead of desert eagle.

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Post by Franz Bonaparta » Mon Sep 11, 2006 15:58

leiloban wrote: I'd opt out on doing any DMs with her (unless she's my
last character) just cuz she's not that good at bulding up the power guage.
Besides, Whip has a good wake-up game after stand B, stand B, down+B,
hcf+Punch.



(CORNER)Stand D/Stand C, Fwd+A x 3 ,(rdp+P)x6 de eagle

Will that hit against other people? I know it works in practice mode but 3 timesi've done it against someone and only 1 hit landed. dp+punch would be the safer choice or if Whip's backed in the corner, hcb+b > stand+b, stand+b, down+b, dp+punch instead of desert eagle.
Thanks for the input....Dont forget that Whip has magnificent QS-setting-DMs so you can always use her DMs to set QS'. EG.stand B, stand B,down B, DM nth hit QS out!!!

Leiloban, the deagle combos is a joke combo... I dun recommend it to be used in casual matches more so tournaments. Only 1 hit is guaranteed btw. Oh yeah.. you said that Whip has a dp+P command, do you mean HCF+P Boomerang??
If you re having a difficulty in performing the cross up combo, try doing a cross up in the corner,make sure that your opp is in the corner, do a cross-up C so that u and ur opp switch sides(u should be in the corner if performed successfuly), this will make the combo tad easier.

Oh yeah.. more Whip combo...
-HCB+A, rdp+P dessert eagle

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Post by leiloban » Mon Sep 11, 2006 18:29

Yeah my mistake. I meant to say boomerang shot instead of dp+p. Good to know whip could do desert eagle after hcb+a. Any extra damage will help.

If you re having a difficulty in performing the cross up combo, try doing a cross up in the corner,make sure that your opp is in the corner, do a cross-up C so that u and ur opp switch sides(u should be in the corner if performed successfuly), this will make the combo tad easier.
(CORNER)Stand D/Stand C, Fwd+A x 3 ,(rdp+P)x6 de eagle

Will that hit against other people? I know it works in practice mode but 3 timesi've done it against someone and only 1 hit landed. hcf+punch would be the safer choice or if Whip's backed in the corner, hcb+b > stand+b, stand+b, down+b, hcf+punch instead of desert eagle.

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