Ramon (XI)

Strats, combos, technical discussion.
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Zero
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Post by Zero » Thu Mar 16, 2006 22:11

I think I have some Ramon match videos. I don't mind to upload if you're want to see.

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Post by flipONE » Fri Mar 17, 2006 17:37

Oh man would I love it if you uploaded some Ramon stuff. Right now I only have three matches, and his LDM video that shows what the LDM followups look like.

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Post by Zero » Fri Mar 17, 2006 21:24

Two match videos from UrbanSQUARE:

http://www.sendspace.com/file/qhn1go
Ramon/Gato/Duck King vs Vanessa/Kensou/Elizabeth

http://www.sendspace.com/file/vzl196
Ramon/Duck King/Kyo vs Ryo/Clark/Elizabeth

Three match videos from Matuyamado:

http://www.sendspace.com/file/e2ygp4
http://www.sendspace.com/file/yr6e0f
Ramon/Jenet/Malin vs Ash/Kula/Oswald

http://www.sendspace.com/file/frfhoj
Ramon/Duo Lon/Kasumi vs Oswald/Ralf/Clark

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Post by flipONE » Sat Mar 18, 2006 21:57

nice vids, I had a couple of them (Ramon/Jenet/Malin vs. Ash/Kula/Oswald).

Thanks a crap load. And now I do see that the combo works and where to do it, although I'm still a little lost on some of the timing for it.

(the combo I'm speaking of is) j.C, st.C, df+B, qcb+C, d.C, qcb+A.

After the qcb+C how do I get close enough for the d.C to connect? Am I supposed to press forward? or start a dash? or is this a link that I just have to learn?

Any and all tips would be awesome.

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Post by Iie-Kyo » Sun Mar 19, 2006 05:19

If this is anything like his old 2k2 combo (which it is), this is actually kinda easy to do.

Std C, df + B, qcb + C, wait for the lag from the QCB + C to finish, then walk a little bit forward, dwn C, qcb + A.

If you want to practice a little bit, watch that video named 1120-16.wmv. The LAMON user rushes down an Oswald player with a lot of those std C, qcb + Cs... seems pretty effective (albeit EXTREMELY risky).

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Post by flipONE » Sun Mar 19, 2006 17:52

It seems so easy to do but I feel all "Ramon inept" cuz I can only land the combo in the corner. If I wait and try to walk up usually I only get the 2hits off the st.C, df+B and then the d.C, qcb+A combos. I guess I'll keep practicing

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Post by Iie-Kyo » Sun Mar 19, 2006 22:05

Try it off a crossover hop/jump C, you'll get a bit more leeway to do it.

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Post by flipONE » Mon Mar 20, 2006 05:19

I've gotten it maybe once or twice. hehe, I've tried crossover C but its my nerves that keep fuckin it up.

I think the biggest problem (out of corner) is how do I pull off the d.C, qcb+A after the st.C, df+A, qcb+C.

I know that when you cancel the df+A with the qcb+C, you have to hold forwards afterwards for any chance of the d.C to hit. I just can't figure out when. I'll just keep practicing. It's just timing now.

EDIT: I wanted to add some questions.

- Whats good anti air?
- hcf+P hows the range this year? I've noticed that NO ONE uses it in the match vids I've seen.
- hcf+K same thing with hcf+P.
- Hows the priority on the "off the wall" super (can't remember the name). And is it unblockable like 2k2?

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Post by Iie-Kyo » Mon Mar 20, 2006 21:12

Ramon's far C is an okay anti air, and his DM is always great anticipated anti-jump. Otherwise, you have to meet someone in the air with one of Ramon's air moves. Used to be his Jump CD, but not anymore. Maybe his j. C or D?

HCF + P is underused because it's very laggy. Its range SEEMS to have been toned down, and Ramon isn't as good at setting up for it now as, say, Griffon or Clark are.

HCF + K didn't have much of a practical use to begin with. I suppose you could cancel it off a pressure string, and then use the E button to "stop" the run to do some fakeouts, but it's only good for using it to catch your opponent while he's asleep.

I got no idea for his wall jump DM... it used to have decent priority (tho most anti-air uppercuts beat it) in 2k2. I imagine it's pretty good against jumpers because of the angle Ramon jumps at you at and the hitbox he carries with it (it's above his head, which makes jumping over it near impossible).

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Post by christensenray » Tue Mar 21, 2006 03:24

I find Ramon's qcb+A to be his best anti-air if not cornered. Mix it up with empty fake out qcb+C's, and it can really annoy some opponents. The lag after (while lying on the floor) is bad, so it takes some skill to use. When playing around with qcb+C though, you gotta be careful not to accidentally do hcbx2+P (for obvious reasons).

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Post by flipONE » Tue Mar 21, 2006 18:10

I was thinking that qcb+A (hold) would be fairly decent anti air due to Ramon walking backwards (quite fast as well), and how fast the kick comes out.

I still haven't been able to play on a machine to test out his hcf+P/K possibilities.

Also was wondering:

on the move list theres a follow up after hcf+K thats not the E button stop. I think the follow up is hcf+E. Does anyone know what this does? or is the move listed wrong?

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Post by Iie-Kyo » Wed Mar 22, 2006 00:17

If this is "her" FAQ, then yeah, of course it's wrong.

His HCF + E is a normal move. He grabs the guy and basically throws them against the wall as though it's a rope, setting them up for a free hit. Think how in wrestling they throw the guy against a rope before they do some sorta dropkick or clotheline as a followup. However, you can choose what to follow up with, I usually just do his tiger load and then do his qcf + P or K followup to add insult to injury, but you can probably do a DM or something.

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Post by flipONE » Wed Mar 22, 2006 02:27

Lol you mean an Irish Whip?

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Post by Iie-Kyo » Fri Apr 07, 2006 21:49

Is that what it's called? It looks pretty cool.

Anyway, I got to get some solid practice against the computer and a couple scrubs, so I can finally give some practical info about his changes.

I tried doing that thing I saw in the match vid (std c, df + B, qcb + C, dwn C, qcb + C, hyper hop C) to pressure an opponent with it - seems kinda effective, but opponents with good sight and a good uppercut/invincible DM probably can stop me. But eh, nothing beats a grabber that can keep you in near-permanent blockstun. :smile:

As I expected, his hcf + P seems to have less range, it still doesn't have trouble comboing tho provided you hit with his std C, df + B or his std C, f + A.

dwn D is indeed cancellable, but it has slight startup and more lag if you fail to cancel it into his qcb + C feint.

His Tiger Load followups have been modified from the KoF 2k2 incarnation in terms of properties and/or speed:

qcf, hcb + E - His old walljump DM has awesome speed now. I might dare say it can be used as air-to-air if timed correctly and as a twitch DM (yes, it's that fast) to stop missed moves from the other side of the screen. He travels farther and faster than his 2k2 version and is very hard to hit if he whiffs it (he lands and gets up really fast). Nice mindgame setup for a free hcf + P.

qcf + P - This thing has reduced speed. Ramon "floats" longer and doesn't travel as far when he does it. I got no idea if this is unblockable cos the times I've done it, I've either whiffed it (it doesn't go fullscreen) or I've hit someone out of the air with it.

qcf + K - Admittedly, this move also has a little bit of extra speed. Can't remember if this thing goes fullscreen with the right button, as I was too busy playing around with the qcf, hcb + E and qcf + P to use this.

qcb + P - Only use for this backflip is as an "oshit he dodged it" move to stuff them if they're trying to stop your Tiger Load by running at you.

It's also very tricky to do a followup to his Tiger Load if you're too near the wall. The followup you plan on using must be input IMMEDIATELY after you do the Tiger Load or you'll end up jumping off the wall lookin' dumb. :grin:

If I'm reading Vice Veceta's movelist correctly, I think "E" is the cancel thing for his Tiger Load and hcf + K. Not sure about the practicality of the cancel. He stops and there's a weird pause at the end. You end up losing momentum cos of this cos the pause is pretty bad.

All in all, this Ramon is still less crackmonkey and more mixups. cos of the nature of XI's speed, you do have to play him a little slower and a bit more carefully, but he's still pretty decent. Still looking for a "SAAAAAAAAAAAMS" move tho.

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Post by Toxic Avanger » Sat Apr 08, 2006 20:29

Iie-Kyo wrote:HCF + K didn't have much of a practical use to begin with. I suppose you could cancel it off a pressure string, and then use the E button to "stop" the run to do some fakeouts, but it's only good for using it to catch your opponent while he's asleep.

I got no idea for his wall jump DM... it used to have decent priority (tho most anti-air uppercuts beat it) in 2k2. I imagine it's pretty good against jumpers because of the angle Ramon jumps at you at and the hitbox he carries with it (it's above his head, which makes jumping over it near impossible).
HCF + K main purpose was to punish low attacks BUT not low fireballs; there are characters that have extremely good low Bs or Ds or df + kick slides, you used this move to brake that 'momentum'.... It was hard, but rewarding, since the enemy changed their mood.

His easier to use air attack was the jumping A in 2k2; but it's hard to time it since the hit box is kinda low; but it's ok quick and angle; you just have to jump higher and do it first from close.

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