Kyo VS Ex-Kyo

Lead Tester · Post by **Lead Tester** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 19:37

Who whould you prefer and why?

Shirakani · Post by **Shirakani** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 06:50

XI Kyo, simply coz he's a character that's very strong, but no one can call OMGBORKEN.

As a Kyo fan, i like a strong Kyo, but at the same time i don't want a Kyo that's so broken that the character gets no respect. XI Kyo is the crowning definition of what a strong, solid, top A tier char should be.

NGBC Kyo is fine for NGBC, where half the entire game is BORKENZ anyway so you need a borken char to play in a borken game, but for a real KOF game, XI Kyo is what Kyo should be.

SonicWaver · Post by **SonicWaver** » Fri Jul 14, 2006 11:04

. D into

+C makes me choose normal Kyo.

I just love that combo

Dark Geese · Post by **Dark Geese** » Fri Aug 11, 2006 00:41

Once again I wanna know EXACTLY why you guys say EX Kyo is OMFG broken..it seriously better not have anything to do with his LDM or I'm gonna go on a rampage..

I play NGBC and I play XI thoroughly..so convince me and lets have n educated discussion about why you say he is OMFG broken..I proved ArcadeFrie wrong assuming the LDM makes him top tier..and any combos in NGBC making him OMFG broken..LDM does not have anything to do with him being top tier I'm telling you guys..

I will put Money on that...

yes some of his comboes do more damage than NGBC..

yes he has cr.bxxf+b to combo..yes his NGBC stock combo does mroe damage around..yes his RED kick in the air is safe like NGBC Kyo..none of this revolves around his LDM at all..

I am just here to debunk anybody that thinks his LDM is the reason hes OMFG broken..None of that stuff I listed makes him OMFG broken IMO..hes super good..but NOT 2k3 Duo Lon thats just blatant inexcusable nonesense if you REALLY THINK ABOUT IT.

And about his LDM..allow me to psot something I posted to ArcadeFire in SRK-

"Yeah I recall explaining Cam in the other thread how it could'nt be an infinite when I rebuked AF's claim..because of the taunt it is nearly impossible to combo from the qcfx2 e super to the Activation mode..BUT..with that being said guys if you have FOUR bars (2 one for super, 2 for DC..and the third for..uh oh..you figure it out!!!) and you get them into the dok chain I have a combo I use that I used in NGBC that once I get you in the dokxxara combo I will KILL YOU!!!! (And this is starting from 100% health assuming I find a way to set up hitting them with the DokxxAra stuff since NOTHING is guaranteed"

The LDM doesnt do shit for KYO guys. Realize that. Just like in NGBC he HAS to get his taunt off..and when he taunts he is WIDE THE FUCK OPEN.

In other words he can be knocked out of it..and yes he has to get you into another combo before he can do anything!!!!!!!!!!

Making it yes..not all that!!!

Post by **SonicTempest** » Fri Aug 11, 2006 03:37

I thought it was his air RED kick and not his LDM that everyone was citing?

Persona · Post by **Persona** » Fri Aug 11, 2006 04:31

EX Kyo >>>>>>>>>> Kyo but I wouldn't say EX Kyo is broken.

I'd say tier under broken or another tier lower.

Nemyus · Post by **Nemyus** » Fri Aug 11, 2006 05:50

I do see wat u guys r saying but doesnt a character who greatly alters the balance and tier of the game classify them as being broken. I mean afterall, wat exactly is consider broken in that case. I think a character that has a unfair advantage that is pretty unstoppable should be consider broken.

dobiqwolf · Post by **dobiqwolf** » Fri Aug 11, 2006 11:19

Nemyus wrote:I do see wat u guys r saying but doesnt a character who greatly alters the balance and tier of the game classify them as being broken. I mean afterall, wat exactly is consider broken in that case. I think a character that has a unfair advantage that is pretty unstoppable should be consider broken.

so gato is broken if we follow your thinking.

Dark Geese · Post by **Dark Geese** » Fri Aug 11, 2006 13:58

Exactly, you have Gato, Kula, Oswald..there you go...now i aint saying that EX Kyo aint good, but guys he doesnt totally alter the game any more than KGO IMO.

Good we all are on the same page.
His air red kick is the same in NGBC..yet he aint uber broken in NGBC is he? Yes now it stops Hyper hoppers..okay..yeah and??

alexis · Post by **alexis** » Sat Aug 12, 2006 05:33

Dark Geese wrote:Exactly, you have Gato, Kula, Oswald..there you go...now i aint saying that EX Kyo aint good, but guys he doesnt totally alter the game any more than KGO IMO.

Good we all are on the same page.
His air red kick is the same in NGBC..yet he aint uber broken in NGBC is he? Yes now it stops Hyper hoppers..okay..yeah and??

Ahem...

NGBC was already unconventional to say the least, and for starters the LEAST SNKP could've done is remove his anywhere juggle

+A.

FIRST REASON FOR EX KYO BEING zOMG BROKEN:

+A

Just the fact that he still keeps it and it works exactly in the same broken-ass way than in NGBC, EVEN ON ARRANGE MODE WHICH HAD EVERY ANYWHERE JUGGLE MOVE REMOVED EXCEPT THIS ONE, makes this one of the reasons.

Kula, Gato, Oswald, K', King, Benimaru, Kim... EVERYONE lost their anywhere juggles, except pretty boy Kyo clone #17.

Oh and uh, hits characters who are incoming from a saving shift. Yeah.

SECOND REASON FOR EX KYO BEING zOMG BROKEN: AIR RED KICK

This one takes the cake. I could've just said this and voila, but in the interest of fairness, I have to list all possibilities so there's absolutely no denying it. So here's the lowdown on the Air RED Kick:

- IMMEDIATE startup
- Hit frames are present through the entire flight (unlike Shingo's Shingo Kick or K's Minute Spike in the air)
- Relatively fast recovery (punishable but if done at correct positioning, barely)
- Can be done on HOPS. HOPS, for Christ's sake, as in a hop C/D wasn't bad enough, here's a move that travels HALF a screen just by hopping directly UP and doing it.
- Can, and will, punish most things. You can even punish a crouching D from half a screen away. Read the comment immediately above.

THIRD REASON FOR EX KYO BEING zOMG BROKEN: MAX MODE LDM

It's not enough that it has the Kim-tacular property when DCing, it will also, FREE OF CHARGE (unlike NGBC) give you the option of remaining in MAX Mode, allowing him to cancel into and out of his entire move arsenal repeatedly.

FOURTH REASON FOR EX KYO BEING zOMG BROKEN: NEW DOKUGAMI CHAIN

It was cool for NGBC, but bringing a new Dokugami chain that leaves the opponent completely and absolutely vulnerable to any juggles whatsoever you may desire might not feel right here. This is actually not an important reason, as in SNKP actually used their gray matter and decided to charge him an entire power bar (unlike in NGBC when he WAS broken in that by doing the Dokugami chain only he'd be able to charge up the half a power stock it cost to follow it, resulting in a not-so-smart thing).

Sure, but how about some friggin' damage scaling? The

+C hit does the exact same amount of damage always, seemingly without any consideration to the hit counter or the current health.

Yeah, these are fine... for now.

Oh, wait, what am I saying!?

EMPTY CANCELLING!

OK, now I'm done.

Lynko · Post by **Lynko** » Sun Aug 13, 2006 06:48

THIRD REASON FOR EX KYO BEING zOMG BROKEN: MAX MODE LDM

It's not enough that it has the Kim-tacular property when DCing, it will also, FREE OF CHARGE (unlike NGBC) give you the option of remaining in MAX Mode, allowing him to cancel into and out of his entire move arsenal repeatedly.

I don't think it's THAT broken. Given that...

-You need to spend 2 stocks to get to it, period.

-I wasn't aware that DC'ing it makes Kyo not able to be punished to get the taunt out, but if you still can get hit out of it, I'd say that counts against him.

-If you were to do a long ass chain and SC and DC into it, you're probably already at the portion of the lifebar where damage will be scaled regardless, add to that the fact that you're probably basically going to repeatedly to

+A,

+C, repeat repeat repeat, it's all going to get scaled.

-Before you CAN get to doing your oh-so-very-grand Max Mode combo, you need to catch the opponent offguard WITH the mode on and and combo away, that could be hard to do if they see you activating it and go uber defensive (because I'm not aware of you being able to activate it and keep going with your chain, I'm sure you can't, THAT would be z0mg BORKEN) until the mode runs out (and it runs out fast if they're not willing to whiff attacks to make it last longer).

-Also uh, being in Max Mode in NGBC didn't cost anything..I'm pretty sure.

Nemyus · Post by **Nemyus** » Sun Aug 13, 2006 06:58

At the end of the day lets just say he is basically at the point of being broken....kinda like 2k3 Duo Lon tier.

Dark Geese · Post by **Dark Geese** » Sun Aug 13, 2006 14:51

Lynko wrote:
THIRD REASON FOR EX KYO BEING zOMG BROKEN: MAX MODE LDM

It's not enough that it has the Kim-tacular property when DCing, it will also, FREE OF CHARGE (unlike NGBC) give you the option of remaining in MAX Mode, allowing him to cancel into and out of his entire move arsenal repeatedly.
I don't think it's THAT broken. Given that...

-You need to spend 2 stocks to get to it, period.

-I wasn't aware that DC'ing it makes Kyo not able to be punished to get the taunt out, but if you still can get hit out of it, I'd say that counts against him.

-If you were to do a long ass chain and SC and DC into it, you're probably already at the portion of the lifebar where damage will be scaled regardless, add to that the fact that you're probably basically going to repeatedly to +A, +C, repeat repeat repeat, it's all going to get scaled.

-Before you CAN get to doing your oh-so-very-grand Max Mode combo, you need to catch the opponent offguard WITH the mode on and and combo away, that could be hard to do if they see you activating it and go uber defensive (because I'm not aware of you being able to activate it and keep going with your chain, I'm sure you can't, THAT would be z0mg BORKEN) until the mode runs out (and it runs out fast if they're not willing to whiff attacks to make it last longer).

-Also uh, being in Max Mode in NGBC didn't cost anything..I'm pretty sure.

I totally side with what Lynko said and this is precisely my point. I agree that the RED Kick is broken. (And I know about the hop RED Kick, great yes)

But everything else.

All Im saying is come on dude...you can't combo into the LDM ala Yun and do the Genei-Kyo combos..if you could that would be a basis for uberbrokenness ala Duo Lon.. And you CAN KNOCK HIM OUT OF HIS LDM!!!

but nope..as Lynko and I said..you still even after activating have to get them in another combo..and it didnt do too much for Kyo in NGBC.

You wanna talk about who has a good LDM Genei-ism??

XI DUO LON..you can get 52 hits off activating into combo Yun/V-Ism style...

And come to think of it 2k3 Duo Lon has his safeness, launch chain mixup, TWO INFINITE COMBOS PLUS THE ABILITY TO COMBO HIS LDM ALA YUN...

See what I mean here? Not as broken as 2k3 Duo Lon.

I rest my case.

Persona · Post by **Persona** » Sun Aug 13, 2006 23:04

Foxy >>>>>>>>>> 2k3 Duolon

The only reason 2k3 Duolon was broken was because every other character in 2k3 sucked shit.

As for the 4 reasons why EX Kyo is broken, I only agree with no. 1 and a bit of no. 2.

Iie-Kyo · Post by **Iie-Kyo** » Sun Aug 20, 2006 22:27

Guys, if you want to know why EX Kyo is ten times better than XI Kyo, read the EX Kyo thread. I stated my reasons there. The LDM + Free Max Mode itself is just one (and definitely not the only reason) EX Kyo is stronger than Xi Kyo. EX Kyo just has too... much.

The Kyo fanboy in me loves EX Kyo, but the "serious competitive player" in me agrees that XI Kyo is a solid A tier character that is probably the best "balanced" incarnation of Kyo since... hmm.. 2000 or so.