Shion (XI) - PS2 Version

Strats, combos, technical discussion.
Blastrezz
Shion (XI) - PS2 Version

Post by Blastrezz » Fri Jun 23, 2006 15:09

Please post tactics and stuff for Shion here.

Specifically important is the information whether she is overpowered as a playable character and as there is no movelist for her I know of, so far, this one is high priority to find out as well :) I'll try her out and maybe when I've the time do a summary posting for her, too.

--Blast

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Post by alexis » Sun Jun 25, 2006 02:48

You asked for me to write my other post here. So here you go. :)

I also fixed the formatting to look nicer. Hope it helps.

--
Shion has two stances. The first stance in which she fights in is her Spear Stance. If she is hit, her Spear will disappear and she will fight bare hand using her WuShu style. She can also willingly switch between the styles. An additional note about her stances. She will keep whatever stance she had (with spear or without) when shifting, saving shifting, quick shifting or guard cancel shifting, EXCEPT her swinging ball stance (more on that below).


SHION'S MOVE LIST
---
IN ANY STYLE:
qcf+P (possible in air) = Shion extends her hand and an invisible projectile travels the screen. The projectile is VERY fast, but will not negate other projectiles, and also will not be negated by any projectiles. It cannot be reflected.

qcb+K = Shion does a low sommersault away from the opponent. Does not hit, it's just an evade move.

---

WITH SPEAR:
Normal attacks for A and B are the same animation, and cannot be spammed, and normal attacks for C and D also have the same animation. Jumping normals for A and C have the same animation, jumping normals for B and D have the same animation. Crouching

f+A = Shion turns around and bends over backwards to stab you. Can be cancelled into, is cancellable and super cancellable.

df+D = Shion slides forward a little. Hits low and knocks down. Can be cancelled into.

qcf+K = Shion will hop and bring her spear down on you. Hits overhead, and does not knock down. Super cancellable.

qcf+Provocation = Shion points at the opponent and yells, and from behind Shion come 7 arrows. Knocks down and does damage like a DM.

qcb+P = Shion steps forward and smacks your head with the spear from above. Hits overhead and is SCable.

dp+E = Shion throws her spear up into the sky and switches her fighting style to wushu style. Does not hit.

dp+Provocation = Like the move above, except that if Shion is not hit, a BIG rock will fall from the sky (like the ones from her stage). This rock is unblockable, and can hit the opponent even if he is in block stun. Does damage like an LDM. (geez)

DM
qcf,qcf+K
= Shion stabs you with her spear from afar. Unlike what it seems, this move does NOT hit low, but does a LOT of damage... closer do an LDM than a DM.

---

WUSHU STYLE
f+E = Shion does her standing E animation but does not knock down. Can be cancelled (into her qcf+E or dp+P) and super cancelled. Can be cancelled into after any of the two following moves.

During crouch B, crouch B = Shion does a double low kick. SCable (if you've EVER played against Shion, odds are she's tried her crouch B, crouch B, DM on you).

During crouch B, or after the move above, crouch D = Shion lifts the opponent into the air with this final kick. Opponent can be juggled afterwards.

standing D = Shion brings out a rope with a ball and smacks you with it.

During stand D (or the next move in this list) b+D = Shion will kick the ball forward again, and afterwards will swing the ball around, during which time she's 'almost' invincible. Her rope and ball negate projectiles (except Magaki's and Ash's DM), and outprioritize many aerial moves (for little damage, though). If this move is performed while the ball is already swinging, she will return to this swinging position again. Unless the opponent blocked the first hit (i.e. is still in block stun), this will hit overhead. This move can cancel into the regular standing D, but it will take Shion out of her swinging ball position. Tap E to stop swinging the ball manually.

During stand D (or the move before this one) f+D = Shion will swing the ball behind her, bringing it forward over her head in a large arc. Does not hit crouching opponents (I tried against Hotaru, she could just be too tiny, but the move will only hit at its furthest point, which is about head height for most characters). After this move, she will swing her ball like the move above. Like the move above, if this is performed while the ball is swinging, she will return to swinging again. This move can cancel into itself up to three times, but if you try to cancel a fourth time, a stand D will come out, and this brings her out of the ball swinging position. Tap E to stop swinging the ball manually.

df+D = This will make Shion hurl her ball at you. This, unlike what it seems like, will NOT hit overhead. Knocks down. Cannot be QS out of, and cannot be SCed. After this, she goes into her swinging ball position. Tap E to leave the position, or do any of the two moves above.

dp+P = Shion will step forward and start throwing punches for about half a second. If this hits, the opponent is hurled into the air. Cannot be QS out of, but her LDM will combo easily after the opponent is thrown into the air (and the LDM will hit the anti-air part and all three rocks).

charge d, u+K = Shion jumps (B version jumps straight up, D version jumps forward) and takes her stick from above and twirls it coming down for multiple hits. Best part of this move is you can SC as soon as you land into her spear stance DM.

qcb+P = Shion will hop forward (button determines the distance) and hit the opponent twice. This knocks opponent far away, and opponent cannot be juggled after. This move does serve a purpose. The first hit will ALWAYS break the guard, so if the opponent attempts to block this, they will still get knocked away by the second hit. Fortunately for people who fight against Shion, she cannot SC after either hit. The first hit can negate projectiles, although it's unclear to me whether or not DM projectiles are also negated.

qcf+E = Shion will step forward, sweep, get in a low crouch and her spear will fall into her hands. SCable, but the sweep will make the DM miss. The LDM does not seem to SC from this.

dp+K = Shion will do a jumping kick anti-air. This anti-air move has AUTOBLOCK. Damn.

d,d+E = Shion will intentionally fall forward on the floor, during which she is ABSOLUTELY INVINCIBLE. Projectiles will pass through, attacks will whiff. She is invincible from the moment you press E until the moment she starts to stand up. She is completely vulnerable at that point. Think Duck King's dash df+C.

DM:
qcf,qcf+P = Shion brings out a pair of red paper flags and hits you many many times twirling in a very cool way (lol) hitting you high and low simultaneously and finally knocking you away on the last hit. One thing to note about this move is that the VERY first hit must be blocked low. Every other hit, despite appearance, can be blocked high or low. DCable, but will not combo unless the opponent is in the corner, and only if DC on the last hit.

LDM: (only in bare hand)
qcf,qcf+E = Shion does a larger version of her anti-air, which will NOT hit the opponent, but will instead make the ceiling break in three large chunks, which will fall directly down with a small space in between each (only one rock will hit, though). The rocks are unblockable, hit OTG and also appear on stages where you're fighting outdoors (lmao), BUT doesn't do much damage when you compare it to her spear style's dp+provocation fake-out rock or the 7 arrows. It is also heavily affected by damage scaling. Another detail is that because of the spacing between the rocks, it IS a possibility that if you do this LDM out of nowhere, all rocks might miss the opponent.

---

Feel free to add anything!
Last edited by alexis on Mon Jun 26, 2006 06:49, edited 5 times in total.

Blastrezz

Post by Blastrezz » Sun Jun 25, 2006 12:10

Yeah, thank you alexis! :D

What about calling "bare hand style" simply "WuShu"? Because I think that's appropriate considering her fighting style is WuShu. The other style maybe simply "Spear" as you already call it that way.

First of all I want to have your opinion about whether Shion as playable character is overpowered or not. So far I don't have the feeling because you need to take into consideration that if you control her yourself you dont have the CPU-Shions advantage of button reading from the opponents moves so that you could always take the right counter measures. And CPU-Shion does this often!

Also playable-Shion doesn't have 300% health of course. I think she might die to rushdown. She has lot of lagged moves, espec. in spear stance and the fact that a simple hit causes the spear to disappear doesn't make it any better....

What do you think?

--------

Alright alright now some notices from myself.

I fiddled around with her for some hours now and she really flashed me. SNK/P beware, if you out her as a boy some day like Ash then my wrath shallst bring you to hell!!!!
I'll also take away all your androgynous Ash xx Chris Porn for that you will never again design weird girlish boy characters!! :p

Ok now the gameplay. Here is noticeable stuff randomly compiled.

- other than CPU Shion you don't start off with the spear but in WuShu.

- consider the WuShu stance has her main, anyway because the spear stance hasn't too many options.


SPEAR STANCE (general):
----------------------------
- far and near moves look the same! A/B are the same, and so are C/D.
Up close C/D are cancelable though even if she doesn't have a near-hit animation for them.

- Shion doesn't really crouch in spear stance..... You have to see this for yourself. It is faster to understand if you just take a look instead of me describing it in long words.

- She has no sweep in spear stance except for the slide.

- Her far normals are pretty much long reach pokes.

- Her jump normals are multi-hit and again A/B and C/D are the same. j.C/D looks like a godly anti-air or air-to-air.

- any hop attack executed with the correct timing sets up an INFINITE! You can do hop D for example all day long until stun or your opponent reaches his 2nd skill stock (for SaveShift).

- can otg hit somebody with c.A/B


WUSHU STANCE (general):
-----------------------------
- j.C/D can hit cross-up

- j.B is a VERY weird jump attack which I haven't figured out yet. Has to be done early to hit. I'm sure the move has its purpose! Can hit cross-up.

- c.C doesn't really have autoguard but it has weird priority in some way and it comes out so fast you seem to be able to stuff anything with this.

- I beg to differ with what alexis said about the dp+K. To me it seemed a VERY strong AA but I might test it more.

- Dream Cancel is crap imo. Don't even think about it. Does no damage and I think you can't combo it even. Alexis you said it is possible after the very last hit of her WuShu kata DM??


DMs (Wushu Stance):
------------------------
2qcf+P = Rush DM with all the WuShu weapon kata moves. Even executes the attacks when she is blocked or whiffs like Ranbuu from Ryo in KoF98.
When connecting does good damage.

2qcf+E = Ceiling cracking stone LDM - Shion jumps highly up near the stage "ceiling" and seems to hit it so hard with her kung fu moves that 3 large chunks of the ceiling break and fall down at three different angles. The chunks of rock are UNBLOCKABLE. I guess you can roll them if done right. It might even be possible to position oneself exactly between two chunks of rock and not getting into any trouble. One piece alone doesn't do much damage even if it hits you. As for doing outside a combo for itself the LDM is crap! You might be able to set up some cross-ups with this as the angle of Shion's jump is pretty high and will most likely cross-up nearby enemies anyway. It might also work as a wakeup unblockable but really the damage done by one chunk of rock isn't that hot.....
You CAN connect the LDM in combos though :)

Try c.B, c.B xx dp+A and then without rushing the input do 2qcf+E. Does nice damage and scales ok! Shion then will break all three pieces of rock directly above the floating opponent which makes ALL THREE parts of rocks connect and that's why the damage here is pretty good!!

In the corner you can do c.B, c.B, c.D, dp+A (early) and then the LDM.


Stance switch setups:
------------------------
This one is really lame but might work once or twice:
(from spear stance:) n.C/D, f+A xx dp+E/Provo.
As you can mix dp+E (simply throws spear away) or dp+Provo. (rock cracks from the ceiling down)

Move options from WuShu Stance to spear:
c.B, c.B, (f+E,) xx qcf+E
It also might be pretty good to use the ch.d~u+B special because I think when she whirls the spear she is pretty hard to hit. I might be wrong though.
f+E input is optional and I recommend to leave it out because it makes the chain timing thougher.

Combos:
=======
WuShu
--------
Practically all you need can be done from a c.B.

c.B, c.B, (f+E) xx dp+A. (juggle) [anything]
Try LDM in this combo if you have the stocks! :D
Again f+E input is optional.
I'm not certain what's the best option for [anything] because it all seems to do the same damage and if it's not the LDM it's pretty poor!


c.B, c.B, c.D, (juggle) [anything but DMs]
In corner you can c.B, c.B, c.D, (juggle early) dp+A, LDM.


Spear
-------
n.C/D, df+D, c.A/B
n.C/D, f+A xx qcf+P, (link) c.A/B


Overall Shion is an excellent design with stylish moves and stuff!!
Please fine-tune her in the next KoF SNK/P !!

--Blast
Last edited by Blastrezz on Sun Jun 25, 2006 16:10, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Shirakani » Sun Jun 25, 2006 15:46

Ok, my observations...

First, Shion is a chick, to hell with all you ppl saying she's a guy, NO WAY IN HELL, lol.

Shion's crouch B is most likely the only crouch poke in the game that has ABSOLUTELY NO PUSHBACK WHATSOEVER. It hits, and the opponent stays right where they are. This is a good thing as it lets you basically do her b&b from the farthest possible poke range. Her crouch B also feels 'canned'. You CANNOT link more than two in a row...if you listen closely, it seems like the hit sound for the 2nd cB is different as well.

Her b&b, in Wushu stance, is basically cB cB f+E, dp+A. f+E has the same anim as her regular E, but it's a cancellable non knockdown hit. E on it's own naturally knocks down. f+E is pretty much a universal linker and will link off a close C, or her crouch B's.

Best tactic for regaining the spear, if you want it, is to do qcf+E after the cB cB f+E. This comboes, knocks down and gives you the spear, then you can do qcb+K a few times to get some distance if you feel like it.

In spear stance, your aim is simply to poke your opponent's life away. Use her qcf+K and qcb+P moves judiciously as the hitbox only appears toward the end of the swing. Standard tactic here is far D into the DM. The cancel timing is a bit awkward, you have to finish the DM motion right before the stab lands. But it's a good solid tactic that can wipe out life really quickly.

If your opponent gets too close to you when you're in spear stance, simply qcb+K to get away. If they're jumping at you, Shion's air C is arguably THE universal pwnall (not counting ex Kyo's air red kick...that can actually trade). Her jump D has properties of Benimaru's flying drill, it just hits way more times, but the hitstun isn't big at all. Once you land your opponent will have recovered. To combo off it, you somehow have to get the drill to last until a split second before you land, then immediately close C/D, f+A, into DM. It's tricky as hell tho.

Shion has no jumping E, but her standing E with the spear has a MASSIVE hitbox and range, and is also a good move to use to create distance.

Blastrezz

Post by Blastrezz » Sun Jun 25, 2006 16:08

Hell yeah (spear) n.C/D, f+A xx 2qcf+K really works. Couldn't believe it o_o
I was thinking the only reliable way to connect this was as a SC from her specials but now this combos, folks!

Shirakani thanks for clarifying about f+E in Wushu. I knew it was this way but I was too stupid to verify correctly, lol. Will correct my posting above.

Also I need to correct what I said about her initial stance. When she is first character she starts with her spear! During the fight after any shifts she comes back in with whatever stance she had before.

--Blast

PS: And yes c.C HAS autoguard, now I know for sure. It is only 1-2 frames though. You shouldn't rely on that.
dp+K (at least D version) also has an autoguard point.
CPU-Shion did both autoguards to me so I know for sure now.

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Post by Kingrand » Sun Jun 25, 2006 18:58

Shirakani wrote:Ok, my observations...
First, Shion is a chick, to hell with all you ppl saying she's a guy, NO WAY IN HELL, lol.
I hope I'm wrong.
But Shirakani, please look at the game booklet, There's no BWH measurements for Shion. If Shion is really female, "she" should has it. Another proove, you don't fight her in Mai's Challenge Mode (beat all the Arcade female chars). Okay, maybe she's sub boss, so you don't have to fight her. But look at the one of Original Endings (Girls Team and Women Team). Shion isn't included in either Girls Team or Women Team?
Yes, I really hope Shion is chick... but this is SNK. The company that created Yumeji in SSV.

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Post by alexis » Sun Jun 25, 2006 23:17

Shion is female because the story points her out as "Onna" which means woman. I know the kanji for girl (among others like sun, moon and boobs lol).

I fixed her move list for bare hand, noting it as wushu.

Also I saw something about Shion's dp+K that made me change my mind. IT HAS AUTOBLOCK. Best.Anti-air.Ever... Nuff said.

Also, added another attack to her Wushu string. Crouch B, crouch B, f+E will combo into her dp+P (THIS is what Shion does all the time), or her DM.

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Post by Monpochi » Mon Jun 26, 2006 00:11

Nice! very helpful guys. Since i saw in screens (yep, haven't got the game *YET* ) that the movelist is like NGBC this would be handy.

And alexis, i don't want to sound like a smart-ass or something, but the "swinging ball" is actually a rope dart. Iirc, it's the one Shion is holding on the official art.

And as another fan, i wish also for the gender direction. Goddamn, seeing the news about Yumeji makes me irk at SNKP now.

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Post by Kyosuke Kagami » Mon Jun 26, 2006 03:43

Quick and useless question:

Can she crouch? :3

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Post by Perfect Stranger » Mon Jun 26, 2006 05:12

alexis wrote:Shion is female because the story points her out as "Onna" which means woman. I know the kanji for girl (among others like sun, moon and boobs lol).
I went through all the ending cinematics again, I didn't see a specific incident where they referred to Shion as a girl. She *talks* like a guy, but "Shion" as a name is almost definitely female.

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Post by Kingrand » Mon Jun 26, 2006 06:00

Kyosuke Kagami wrote:Quick and useless question:
Can she crouch? :3
yes, she can.

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Post by alexis » Mon Jun 26, 2006 06:57

Perfect Stranger wrote:
alexis wrote:Shion is female because the story points her out as "Onna" which means woman. I know the kanji for girl (among others like sun, moon and boobs lol).
I went through all the ending cinematics again, I didn't see a specific incident where they referred to Shion as a girl. She *talks* like a guy, but "Shion" as a name is almost definitely female.
Actually, it's not told in the cinematics in the game. It's told in SNKP's official website, on her storyline. Well, I don't know much Japanese, but a sentence in there seems to say something about a girl and immediately says someone's name is Shion. I posted a link to my photobucket image so you can help me figure this out.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v36/G ... 641e2c.jpg

PS, please help us!

[edit: Also, can someone bring light into the whole Yumeji thing? Isn't Yumeji a girl that fights like Ukyo?]

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Post by SonicTempest » Mon Jun 26, 2006 13:22

That line starts off as follows:
"Kanojo, iya, kare wa..."

In other words:
"She, no, he is..."

*Muddies the waters a bit more*

Also, this kind of stuff should be in the rant thread, not here.

Blastrezz

Post by Blastrezz » Wed Jun 28, 2006 18:52

Well, I think she is broken. Not in a way Rugal-KoF2k2-300%Health broken but pretty sick stuff.
Maybe she won't be allowed nowhere. That's a pity for the nice design :(


(spear) qcb+P can be linked to qcf+K and then be SCed to 2qcf+K for omgwtf-Damage like ~80%

In case you haven't noticed yet: Her spear NORMAL moves hits do guard damage!!

--Blast

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Post by alexis » Wed Jun 28, 2006 19:25

You mean they do lots of guard damage? Because everyone's normals do guard damage, just some more than others (Tizoc and Maxima come to mind).

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