~!T.T!~ wrote:this incarnation of kyo could never be top tier material, leader or not, with or without damage scaling. With that said, however, i do think he's 5th in the game overall. key thing here is safety. anything that makes sense to end blocked strings with is safe. I mean, he's almost as brainless as ngbc kyo......
Heh, I had yet another 2-page post in response to this, but I'll just put it at this. The only person out of the Unholy Three that requires brains to play IMO is Oswald, the other two are very one dimensional characters. Kyo IMO requires a bit more forward thinking than the two do, and without damage scaling and with his leader, I think he's a solid 4th - 5th place, with the occasion of hitting 3rd if it turns into a 1v1 match with both Oswald and Kyo with full stocks. But he is the crowning definition of an A tier character.
He has everything he needs to beat you down with and nothing more. Compared to the Unholy Three, it's hard to scream omgwtf borken in regards to this incarnation of Kyo because this is simply a Kyo with all the right options. No ghey LDM that uses messed up juggle properties to be "good", no ridiculously easy to crossup with button that has omgwtf hitstun (yes, I'm aware Kyo's B is easy to crossup with, but it doesn't have a HUGE hitbox like a certain character's C nor does it do a C's worth of hitstun) into an omgwtf easy to do dwn b dwn a combo that can hit from a character's length, no ultra-high priority uppercuts or ridiculously safe moves (whiff an LDM and they can't hit you, WTF?), no ultra high speed moves with 0-2 frame startup other than the Kamikura, which costs 2 stocks and can be escaped since it's a grab, etc.
Now NGBC Kyo on the other hand, I will agree with you is brainless... that's the Gato-ized version of Kyo, bar none. Even that version of Kyo scares me.
Funny thing about playing him like Kusanagi, you can also play the bait-the-jump/roll game with him when you go zoner mode. Something feels ass-backwards about going Shotokan on someone for the hell of it, but the option is there. Now if that Oniyaki only had autoguard...
Oh, about the corner thing - what I meant to say is what do you do once you have them cornered. I'm trying to think of as many things possible to do to fux0r the guy up, and of course it's pretty obvious as to how weird of an attack angle his Kamikura gives. I just didn't see it as much of a big deal in 2001 where previously you could jump out of it on reaction if you see it startup. Now if he gets you with it and you're not doing anything that has godly priority or invincibility, he WILL get you, but I find him such a solid character that putting him as a leader kinda sucks cos I usually have to play him last and use him "smart" instead of being a throwaway character with nothing to lose in the first slot.
I enjoy playing him more as part of the normal team, but I may take the suggestion to putting Kyo as leader and placing him first, since Kyo's very good at controlling the match's momentum ASAP (provided he can cornerfuck one of the KGOs, since the GTFO the corner options require stock or in Kula's case, a risky as fuck dp + C or DM.
In regards to the B Hikigane, I'm speaking more of the B Hikigane that follows from doing the the Hikigane after the *second* followup of the Aragami, where it turns into the little hop. I find it really hard to hit with (or even trick an opponent into getting hit by it) because of its lag, but I'm guessing I just need to vary my Aragami strings more so it's a nice thing to bs out of nowhere when the time comes.
Btw, the computer taught me how awesome the priority on Kyo's crouch C is now. I've seen it stuff the Unholy Three's buttons, and the computer Kyo was even able to stop my Kyo's hop B with it. O_o
Tick throws are your best friends.