Kyo (XI)

[Gemini83]

Just something i found out by accident...

Dunno if anyone here found out abt it.. Kyo's far Stand D can dodge Adel's wave and i believe should be able for land wave projectiles..

[AcidicEnema]

Kyo dodges under King's high fireball during the first 5/6 of his fireball throwing animation.

In otherwords, if King throws a fireball from full screen, just throw one of your own. If she threw a low one, both negate each other. If she threw a high one, you hit her and she misses you. Its a pretty ghetto option select.

[AcidicEnema]

I've been trying Kyo's corner double aragami> Hikigane> Uppercut combo recently, and I must say that I find Scruffy's method much easier to do/less likely to screw up.

i.e., Don't delay the second hit of 75 Shiki Kai, don't delay Aragami, delay Hikigane slightly.

It's easier because there's only one point which require's some timing. This is as opposed to:

Delay second hit of 75 Shiki Kai, hit with first Aragami (not to early, not too late), etc

Where there isn't a specific way of telling whether the first Aragami is too early or too late until the uppercut misses.

[SonicWaver]

...and 4 dumb, lazy, basicness users (auch!), u can still just do qcfx2+ A/C and just DC to LDM (i´ve tried on both landing/standing opponents and on both, it works perfectly)

[Iie-Kyo]

See previous page, I asked that question already. :grin: My question - is it really worth the extra hits to combo into the DM -> LDM? It seems rather tricky, and in a clutch tourney match where money is on the line, I'd much rather go for a simple 182 Shiki (qcf x 2 + P) -> Kamikura as opposed to risking the Aragami hits. If you flub the chain you may possibly leave yourself open for a free combo.

Which begs the other question - because of the damage scaling system, wouldn't the Kamikura's damage be toned down to a point where the Aragami combo into the Kamikura vs. just doing the 182 Shiki into the Kamikura would be almost identical?

[Iie-Kyo]

AY, where's everyone. *kicks AE back into thread*

If this hasn't been said before, his dp + C is incredibly good anti-everything. It has the same priority as Ryo's dp + C, and just like Ryo's dp + C, both hits WILL hit if the first hit hits.

Basically if you see a jump in coming in from far away and you can't bs his Burning Noogie, just do a dp + C on reaction. You are guaranteed to win.

Anyone using his new followups to his qcf + A, hcb + A Aragami chain? Seems to give him a lotta opportunities for mindfucking, but I never see it being used in match vids - I've gotten good success off of this...

[AcidicEnema]

DP+C isn't fully invulnerable unlike in 2k2. It gets beaten by attacks that hit deep and low. For example, a fully extended Kula jump C.

Use DP+A against low attacks. Against Kula jump C, block or uppercut *early*.

The trade off is that its much easier now for both the hits of the DP C to connect- a more than welcome trade off, since it means that the DP C almost always knocksdown now.

[~!T.T!~]

on opponent's wakeup today, i did kula's dp C against kyo's dp C. both at the same time, pretty close to each other. Kula's won, didnt even have to trade

[AcidicEnema]

On a side note, Ryo's DP+C isn't fully invincible too, although its got such a huge hitbox that it always at least trades.

[Iie-Kyo]

Hmm, I stand corrected.

Methinks Kula's DP + C (not A) has full startup invincibility, which is the reason why it ended up beating the stuffing out of Kyo's DP + C. But in a realistic match, the range in you'd be to have such a situation to happen - I wouldn't be using the C version Oniyaki in Kula's face to try to stuff it. Seeing how it seems ridiculously good this year (I admittedly have yet to see anything beat it) I would just bait it and punish with a damaging combo since that is the only non-DM move she has that is capable of stopping Kyo's. Basically treat her like an overpowered loli-shoto.

So far I haven't seen it lose to meaties, but then again, I haven't dealt with characters that have really good meaties other than Kula and Mary. The angle for Kula's hop C is REALLY weird, and at that point I would just block it, as you pointed out, since the timing you need to stuff something like that is outrageous. Otherwise, the DP + C is one of those "if you see the guy jump use it" moves, since now both hits of it are guaranteed.

In terms of Ryo's dp + C, it has the same properties of his old dp + A, meaning I believe it starts off "low" with lots of priority - it cleanly beats ground attacks, and at worst, as you once again pointed out AE, trades with jump attacks. Of course, I don't mind - a trade which results in a knockdown is better than it losing altogether and your opponent gaining momentum on you.

[christensenray]

I quite often use qcf+A, hcb+A, followups. Gotta love the high-low game.
Question: who actually uses the qcf+A, hcb+K (other than in the juggle combo), or the qcf+A, qcf+A, hcb+K?

Especially that last one (which is his old hcb+B move). Is that useful for ANYTHING? At all? I've played with it, and it just seems crap. Doesnt even connect with the rest of the chain...

[Shirakani]

Anyone using his new followups to his qcf + A, hcb + A Aragami chain? Seems to give him a lotta opportunities for mindfucking, but I never see it being used in match vids - I've gotten good success off of this...

The 'new' Aragami chains are used for exactly that imo (high low game). Due to the speed of many matches tho, getting someone cornered hard enough to actually do that is pretty rare. Depends on the matches you fight i guess. In the ones i play, i've never really gotten a chance to high low, the moment i get someone into a corner where it seems like i'll have a chance to batter them, they immediately tag out and it screws whatever it is i was trying to do.

With regards to the damage scaling, it's prolly one of few reasons why Kyo isn't S tier. But DC'ing the Shinken -> Kamikura has one upside, it GUARANTEES that you'll land the Kamikura, rather than have to fight for position to land it. I still have the habit of going hcb+A, hcb+E like in all prior KOF's to 'combo' the Kamikura, but even that wasn't a guaranteed hit. This DC is a REAL DC in the way that in the Shinken hits, then you're guaranteed the LDM.

I still wonder tho how the NGBC ver of Kyo would fare in KOF XI...Better or worse? That air RED kick should be illegal in many ways...

[/i]

[Iie-Kyo]

I quite often use qcf+A, hcb+A, followups. Gotta love the high-low game.
Especially that last one (which is his old hcb+B move). Is that useful for ANYTHING? At all? I've played with it, and it just seems crap. Doesnt even connect with the rest of the chain...

I don't use his qcf + A, hcb + K at all, combos or not. Sure you look leet doing it, but that just gives you more opportunities to fuck up his LDM setup for the combo.

In terms of his qcf + A, qcf + A, hcb + K, shouldn't the hcb + K result in a juggle?

If it's anything like Kyo's old KoF 2k2 max mode combo, the qcf + A, qcf + A results in a juggle opportunity - this is the reason why his P or K followup to it hits. And from what I can tell, the hcb + K wasn't changed in terms of animation and speed... shouldn't this result in a free juggle setup? i.e. his 75 Shiki Kai in an Aragami chain?

Shirakani: The LDM hit is not guaranteed if you're outside the corner. Although you have plenty of time to hit with the LDM (typical setup for it is off his 75 Shiki Kai), you also have plenty of opportunity to fuck up the required Shinken/Burning Noogie/qcf x 2 + P... if you hit from too far away the Shinken will whiff or the Kamikura may whiff.

But if you're talking about comboing the Shinken from something ground-based into his LDM, yeah... it makes him pretty strong.

[christensenray]

In terms of his qcf + A, qcf + A, hcb + K, shouldn't the hcb + K result in a juggle?

If it's anything like Kyo's old KoF 2k2 max mode combo, the qcf + A, qcf + A results in a juggle opportunity - this is the reason why his P or K followup to it hits. And from what I can tell, the hcb + K wasn't changed in terms of animation and speed... shouldn't this result in a free juggle setup? i.e. his 75 Shiki Kai in an Aragami chain?

The string doesn't combo. The opp can block between the qcf+A and the hcb+K, which is just plain stupid.

[~!T.T!~]

errrrm, makes sense for qcf A, qcf A, hcb D to combo.....

i mean, the 2nd qcf A still launches, and qcf A, qcf A is guaranteed. i'm just guessing why not.....