KOF XIII General Discussion/Rant Thread

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Re: KOF XIII General Discussion/Rant Thread

Post by shinefist » Sun Nov 20, 2011 19:03

Just putting the info up quick incase it gets taken down enjoy

The following contains MAJOR DLC SPOILERS.
KOF XIII - Mr. Karate Neomax

Mr karate changes and neo max
1) gained f+A command attack, canned 3 hit leftrightleft punch that is comboable into and from.
2) Ko'oh-ken is KOF2k2 Takuma style. Both A and C vers will combo. C ver does not guardcrush.
3) C ver Ko'oh-ken has a 'followup dash' (doubletap forward) that lets you cancel the recovery with a short dash forward... corner combo fun here.
4) C ver Kohou (dp+C) is brakable (A+B to brake).
5) new move, Hakyoujin (qcb+P), which is a high or low Geese style counter.
6) regained Shorankyaku (hcb+K) knee rush, with all properties from KOF98.
7) Hienshippukyaku (hcf+K) is an AIR MOVE only.
8) DM's are HSKK, Ryukoranbu, and Marco's big shiny uppercut from Garou MOTW.

KOF XIII - NESTS Kyo neomax

Nests kyo changes and neo max

Changes vs regular Kyo:

1) ex Kototsuki is no longer a command grab, it's a short rush and grab. He does not have the Hikigane (boo).
2) df+D 1hit no longer cancellable
3) close C, f+B combos, and is comboable from ala KOF2k1. This will be his main combo starter.
4) ex Oniyaki does not rise into the air, and only hits 6 times vs 10 from regular Kyo
5) ex firefist is the Dokugami (qcf+C) and the final dp+C hit has the properties of the ex Oniyaki
6) lost Air Orochinagi
7) Gained Mu Shiki, cB, cA, Mu Shiki works ala KOF97/98
8) Neomax IS comboable from close C, f+B, regardless of how the startup looks.
9) 75 Kai (qcf+K,K) is no longer automatic, both K's must be manually input like in old KOF. Range of the move is far shorter than regular Kyo, and it comes out slower like in KOF2k. You can drivecancel it from qcf+C for jugglefuns.
10) rdp+K is the R.E.D Kick as expected, overheads.
How did they unlock these, have they been bought?

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Re: KOF XIII General Discussion/Rant Thread

Post by Iie-Kyo » Sun Nov 20, 2011 19:19

Good shit. I'd like for this shit to stay up here on ON, because I'll personally be annoyed if it does since I WILL play 98 - er - NESTS Kyo.

RED Kick being an overhead and having 98 Final Showdown makes my penis hard.

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Re: KOF XIII General Discussion/Rant Thread

Post by shinefist » Sun Nov 20, 2011 19:23

Takuma sounds sick

Glad kyo makes you hard hehe
Dont know how they got the info on the dlc characters.

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Re: KOF XIII General Discussion/Rant Thread

Post by Gunsmith » Sun Nov 20, 2011 19:36

Humph. SNKP will not be too happy.

This information was unlocked by cracking the xbox 360 disc, much like they did with Mortal Kombat.

Please use spoilers.

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Re: KOF XIII General Discussion/Rant Thread

Post by Iie-Kyo » Sun Nov 20, 2011 19:54

Gunsmith wrote:Humph. SNKP will not be too happy.

This information was unlocked by cracking the xbox 360 disc, much like they did with Mortal Kombat.

Please use spoilers.
Gunsmith, here's the problem - SNKP is going off the same precedent that Capcom did by having Day 1 ON-THE-DISC DLC. That's beyond dirty man. I think players should be informed of this. Just because Capcom does it does not make it right. Also, games always get datamined the day they're released (or at least the day the game breaks street dates). I know now that you have a good partnership with RSG that you're worried about pissing off the wrong guys since you spent a lot of time building up a relationship with them (and I give you many Bison bucks for doing so) but both the good AND BAD aspects of this game needs to be shown, especially when we're throwing down $50 USD for it. If he is indeed using a modified X360, he cannot play this game online, so him showing off the character in a single player setting won't hurt things.

And you know, this could've been prevented IF THEY DIDN'T PUT THE DAMN DLC ON-DISC AS DAY-1 BUYABLE CONTENT.

Yes, I sorta mad.

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Re: KOF XIII General Discussion/Rant Thread

Post by Toxic Avanger » Sun Nov 20, 2011 20:05

Iie-Kyo wrote: Gunsmith, here's the problem - SNKP is going off the same precedent that Capcom did by having Day 1 ON-THE-DISC DLC. That's beyond dirty man. I think players should be informed of this. Just because Capcom does it does not make it right.

And you know, this could've been prevented IF THEY DIDN'T PUT THE DAMN DLC ON-DISC AS DAY-1 BUYABLE CONTENT.
This has nothing to do with other companies nor conspiracy theories nor crap like that. The deal is simple; having the content locked inside the disk and being unlockable through a code getting by paying online or having the DLC being true DLC that needs to be downloaded and installed into the game; we have that the first one is dirt cheap easy to implement and easy to do, and the second one is not that much.

SNK has already shown lack of competency when it comes to software updates (fact that has already cost them a steep price), so being a team that isn't experienced in current gen technology and having no true experience on the field, it was blatantly obvious that they where going to choose the dirt cheap method to have the DLC. Let us remember that SNK had to waste a lot of money with the update of KoF XIII 1.0 to 1.1 because they had to replace the hardware, apparently being unable to properly do so by installable software modules like namco, arc system or sega usually do (whether is because they lack the techniques to do so, or because they couldn't afford to travel to the field location of the machines and offer the service, it's unknown to us).


So yeah, this was obviously going to happen right away. In fact I'm kinda surprised that it happened so late in the game, when the game has 3 or so days to come out. The sad side of the deal is that it means that further DLC aside from the one that is already on the disk is not likely.

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Re: KOF XIII General Discussion/Rant Thread

Post by Iie-Kyo » Sun Nov 20, 2011 20:24

Toxic Avanger wrote:This has nothing to do with other companies nor conspiracy theories nor crap like that. The deal is simple; having the content locked inside the disk and being unlockable through a code getting by paying online or having the DLC being true DLC that needs to be downloaded and installed into the game; we have that the first one is dirt cheap easy to implement and easy to do, and the second one is not that much.

SNK has already shown lack of competency when it comes to software updates (fact that has already cost them a steep price), so being a team that isn't experienced in current gen technology and having no true experience on the field, it was blatantly obvious that they where going to choose the dirt cheap method to have the DLC. Let us remember that SNK had to waste a lot of money with the update of KoF XIII 1.0 to 1.1 because they had to replace the hardware, apparently being unable to properly do so by installable software modules like namco, arc system or sega usually do (whether is because they lack the techniques to do so, or because they couldn't afford to travel to the field location of the machines and offer the service, it's unknown to us).

So yeah, this was obviously going to happen right away. In fact I'm kinda surprised that it happened so late in the game, when the game has 3 or so days to come out. The sad side of the deal is that it means that further DLC aside from the one that is already on the disk is not likely.
I didn't say it was a conspiracy theory. I said it's a dick trick and consumer-unfriendly; you can make excuses for SNKP by saying they're short on money and they lack competency in DLC and all that, but right now they're trying to cater to a group of people that have been burned by them for the past 5 years. SNKP is trying to rebuild trust with its fanbase, and it shows by them trying to rebalance the game and put lots of content into the game. However, they're essentially shooting themselves in the foot by doing this. That's probably why they stuck with GSS netcode too, they probably don't have the money (or competency) to make their own netcode. It's these cost-saving measures they're taking that is biting SNKP in the ass. This is probably small potatoes compared to the netcode, but this essentially invalidates the $50 price for the game, as we have no idea what the price for these two new characters are. If they charge an arm and a leg like ArcSys did with their DLC chars, we may be looking to pay for more than $60 USD for content that is already on the disc. And yeah, what makes it even more depressing is I get the impression that this will be our only DLC, as animating new 2D characters is too damn costly for them unlike Capcom shitting out another 3D bastardized version of a 2D character. :/

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Re: KOF XIII General Discussion/Rant Thread

Post by Gunsmith » Sun Nov 20, 2011 22:31

Valid points here:

However,

I challenge anyone to put themselves in SNKP's shoes and give us a better business plan, considering the limited resources, etc etc, making sure there will be enough profit to make KOF XIV-

then we can talk.

I've been monitoring fans of other franchises and nobody should be surprised when I say most are the same, whining and moaning and never happy.

I have indeed worked hard to help RSG and SNKP, but seeing the unreasonable b/s that comes from so-called fans who believe that money grows on trees, don't be surprised if I retire tomorrow.

Guys, enjoy the game. If you don't like the price, wait for trade ins. Nomatter how they try to dumb it down, KOF is blatantly too much for the kiddies. It's sad, because Capcom knows how to make games that are fun. Easy games are fun. KOF is like sado masochism! You're all sick!!! SICK I TELL THEE *xx

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Re: KOF XIII General Discussion/Rant Thread

Post by hadoolket » Mon Nov 21, 2011 00:25

on the other hand, it was hardly unexpected that people would gripe about it, i'm not a fan of this tactic either and the only justification snk has for it is being otherwise dire and povert, and people like me can keep standing up for that purpose, but in the end, the customer's point of view does matter greatly in the purchase

people are already cynical about kofxii that it takes a helluva lot of talking to try and smooth things over with most, and even then it all can be met with still-apprehension or down-right refusal

here's the thing, you have to talk to the people without insulting their intelligence; ie: they're not going to buy something just because the company is in dire straits, and not to say this about kof, but people aren't going to look at "hard work" as a good reason either, they're going to say something like "well it was very hard work for me to take that shit last night and ain't noone paid me a penny for them turds i shat an' i was grimacin' an' everything felt like i was doggone constipated forever man"

with that said, i still support kofxiii, i just want to say that we can come up with justifications all we want but the sad reality is people don't care, and no amount of excuses or sympathy is going to increase kofxiii sales, and saying "deal with it" is especially going to alienate them from something non-capcom

sadly, people still deal with capcom because they're zombies for capcom

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Re: KOF XIII General Discussion/Rant Thread

Post by Iie-Kyo » Mon Nov 21, 2011 04:09

EX Kyo full move list:

Issetsu Seoi Nage = Same throw as normal Kyo's - hard knockdown and backturn.
Geshiki: Goufu You = f+B -
88 Shiki = df+D
Geshiki Naraku Otoshi = d+C in air

100 Shiki Oniyaki = dp+P (ex)
R.E.D Kick = rdp+K (ex)
212 Shiki: Kototsuki You = hcb+K (ex)
75 Shiki: Kai = qcf+K,K (ex)
104 Shiki: Aragami = qcf+A
--128 Shiki: Ku Kizu = qcf+P
---127 Shiki: Ya Sabi = qcf+P
---125 Shiki: Nana Se = K

104 Shiki: Aragami = qcf+A
--127 Shiki: Ya Sabi = hcb+P
---Geshiki: Migiri Ugachi = f+P
---127 Shiki: Nana Se = K

115 Shiki: Dokugami = qcf+C (ex)
--401 Shiki: Tsumiyomi = hcb+P
---402 Shiki: Batsuyomi = f+P
----100 Shiki: Oniyaki = dp+P

* Reversed 108 Shiki: Orochinagi = qcb,hcf+P (ex/SDM)
* Saishuu Kessen Ougi "Mu Shiki" (aka Final Showdown) = qcf2x+P (NO EX/SDM BAWWWW)
**Saishuu Kessen Hi-ougi "Totsuka" = qcf2x+LK+HK (Neomax)

I'm going to get some more information about certain things - namely if the Kick ender for the Aragami chain is the 98 kick (which left him open) or if it's the spinny one from 2k1 and on. I'm also gonna check if the down b down a combos into the f + B.

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Re: KOF XIII General Discussion/Rant Thread

Post by Iie-Kyo » Mon Nov 21, 2011 08:25

Additional info:
EX Kyo:
* No confirmations on whether or not Kyo gets autoguard on his Aragami, Dokugami, or Oniyaki - additional information will be released later
* His f + B is 2k1 style, so it will only do the two hitter (the old f + B) if you cancel it off a normal.
* Unfortunately, Kyo cannot tap combo down b down a into f + B like 2k1 Kyo can. So Kyo has no tap combo non-HD cancel combos he can go into from a down b down a. Of course, this doesn't fucking matter. He can Final Showdown your ass. EDIT: It looks like he can combo Aragami from a down b down a. WHAT THE FUCK.
* Kyo's Kick ender for his Aragami chain is the 98 straight kick, so be VERY careful about using it when it's blocked.
* std C, f + B, Orochinagi does not connect, but EX Orochinagi does. std c, f + B, Mu Shiki connects for FULL hits.
* The Mu Shiki "jails" you. What this means is if you get hit by ANY OF THE HITS OF THE MU SHIKI you will eat the rest of the hits. Period.
* B version RED Kick has the same speed and recovery as 2k2 UM Kyo RED kick. This means it is safe on block unless you do it point blank range. D version RED kick has an active hitbox at a later point than usual. It arcs a bit higher (similar to CvS2 Kyo's) but it's safe on block because it hits so late. EX RED Kick is completely safe on block and has insane air to air priority and comes out fast. The arc on it is in between a B and D RED kick. It pretty much is a "fuck you, stay down" move to use if an opponent tries to get away from your offense.
* df + D is the same speed as normal Kyo's, so you can't use it as a ghetto gimmicky high/low mixup game off of a DC cancel.

General impressions regarding EX Kyo. I'll just copy-paste what he said because he explains it better than I do - I'll edit out what's unnecessary:

Your main combo chain will be close C, f+B, Dokugami chain... poke with Aragami like you normally would in 98-2k2... Once you have some drive you can do shit like close C, f+B, qcf+C, hcb+C (dc) hcb+D (sc) Mu Shiki... or whatever.

HD combos, meh, whatever worked in 2k2, try it here. The only thing that won't work is anything relying on a Hikigane juggle which is why I went BOO at the fact he has the Kototsuki still, but what do you expect from a quickly thrown together character 'DLC', pfft.

Compared to normal Kyo, this Kyo's strength is arguably the opposite compared to shotoKyo. shotoKyo has relatively average damage until he has drive, and can corner the opponent, then make like a fucking mexican juggler (with drive cancels/HD). What makes shotoKyo strong are three things: 1) B ver Oboroguruma, 2) air Orochinagi 3) Yamibarai can juggle.

This Kyo is extremely strong even with no drive, the basic Dokugami chain does very good damage and he has enough options to not be onesided, but his HD combos, while EASY, are not that powerful due to no Hikigane. He has limited juggle extenders coz of that missing tool. Sure you can juggle off the Kototsuki but that EATS HD guage for pissy damage just as an extender (ie, first hit of the Kototsuki, the elbow, only does 30 damage, and you have to burn two segments of HD to cancel in and out of it)

...*sigh* you don't realize how awesome the Hikigane is as a juggling tool until you play this Kyo and then WAH WHERE'S MY JUGGLE TOOL?!?... T.T

EX Dokugami has invincibility and a 'blow through' property like claw Iori's EX's. EX Oniyaki will make Kyo spin low in the air twice, regardless of if it hits or not, and has a lot of priority and invincibility. If one hit lands, the rest jails. EX Kototsuki is a shortened rush, but has blow through property so can be used like Iori's EX claw rush to cut thru projectiles. EX Orochinagi is same as normal Kyo's... two frame activation, bullshit fast. Neomax, despite the long activation animation, all that is just for show, it HITS within 3 frames of animation and has a LARGE hitbox. Use it exactly like you would the 182 Shiki Shinken. It's a far bigger, cooler looking ver of the 182 Shiki, use it like that.

***snip***

Mr Karate:
* There are rumours that his cl C is jump cancellable, but needs more verification. Someone probably saw a dp + C that was "brake"d and thought it was a cancel.
Last edited by Iie-Kyo on Mon Nov 21, 2011 20:02, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: KOF XIII General Discussion/Rant Thread

Post by Gunsmith » Mon Nov 21, 2011 11:02

Yeah, customers don't really care for a company's problems, and they don't have to.

As a fan that wants the company to survive, you need to try to persuade the customer that the product is acceptable.

It's like being the fan of a mid tier football club. You know they're unlikely to win, but you want them to succeed and you'll tell everyone to support them. When the manager doesn't buy that star player, you freak, but you may understand that it's just not affordable. How can the club get cash? By convincing more people to buy tickets and merchadise. But why bother with a mid tier club? Because you like them and they have the potential to be great. Even if they have to do some dirty tricks to advance, a fan will support them.

Now when a well established and profitable company starts using dirty tricks, well, let's hope we're all zombies by then.
omfg I want Kyo, just for the RED kick, fucking take my money.... argh have to wait till Dec for DLC! ARGHHHH!!!!

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Re: KOF XIII General Discussion/Rant Thread

Post by Fuu » Mon Nov 21, 2011 12:35

Yeah vaguely disappointed Nests Kyo is actually Kyo98 but RED Kick + chains is love.

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Re: KOF XIII General Discussion/Rant Thread

Post by hadoolket » Mon Nov 21, 2011 13:48

mind you, i want snk to succeed as much as any of us other fans, it's just that i get worried that other potential customers will find lots of excuses to stay away.

i made this flowchart a while back based on purchasing kof, i thought i should share it now:
Image
this flowchart is the polar opposite of the capcom game buying flowchart which ends with "BUY IT ANYWAY" with intermediate points of "bitch and gripe about lack of said character", "obnoxious feature/mechanic inserted", etc. and it just goes to show how zombie-like people are for a capcom product even when i hear them complain endlessly.

snk/kof will not get that kind of slack, sadly.

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Re: KOF XIII General Discussion/Rant Thread

Post by Toxic Avanger » Mon Nov 21, 2011 16:41

Iie-Kyo wrote:
...*sigh* you don't realize how awesome the Hikigane is as a juggling tool until you play this Kyo and then WAH WHERE'S MY JUGGLE TOOL?!?... T.T
With a much more lax juggling engine he doesn't need that at all, specially if he keeps the regular Kyo rejuggler of Oniyaki -> 75 shiki, or even the Kyo 1 rejuggler of Aragami -> 75 shiki.

Tomorrow is the official date for some, gentlemen. Sadly my game is likely to pack in late :lol: Then again, that kinda brings me closer to the european community or something? *wink I should get it at 29 latest. The catch? It's 40% off.

At hadoolket, you are not going to argue with a lot of people before they can touch the game. And even after they play the game, pretty much some 80% of them aren't going to change their mind. Because they are just like that.

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