2K2 UM - Heidern

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2K2 UM - Heidern

Post by Kane317 » Sat Feb 28, 2009 19:57

Feels different without the unblockables now, his pressure game is slightly different but he's still powerful.

-s.C no longer cancels off the first hit.

-In order to SC his Moon Slasher, you have to be somewhat far when the Moon Slasher (charge.d~u+P) connects, you'll notice he'll lag for a split second during the motion, that's when the SC is meant to be inputted. Due to the distance requirements in order to SC, it's good practice to combo into the Moon Slasher with at least one or two d.As. Mid screen the qcb~hcf+K (S)DM will connect and only in the corner will Final Bringer qcfx2+P (S)DM connect.

-Mashing during Storm Bringer (hcb+P) no longer helps (awwwww) or Final Bringer for that matter except in a special case for Storm Bringer mentioned later. EDIT: So it turns out it's true you don't need to mash only if, your opponent doesn't mash himself. Just always mash, sorry for the confusion (one of those things you don't find out till you play a real human).

-hcb+B counter DOES benefit from mashing.

-Curiously, (I dunno if this was always the case) both Storm Bringer and Final Bringer do the exact same damage to the opponent but Final Bringer recovers slightly more life to Heidern.

-Storm Bringer bug still exist but extra damage is reduced compared to '98UM.

So I did some testing with the conditions of the Storm Bringer bug. For those who forgot, or don't know: If you perform a Moon Slasher that misses the opponent completely, as long as Heidern doesn't get hit, the next Storm Bringer you perform does more damage.

-After you "enter the bug", if the opponent makes you block OR even attacks (but whiffs, curiously...), your next Storm Bringer CAN do the extra damage but this time you DO have to mash otherwise it does normal damage again.

-BEST improvement to Heidern's gameplay BY far in '02UM is his unblockable Neck Rolling (charge.d~u+K). This move is so abusive now, especially if you do the B version upclose. Try this when you're close: jump A [Blocked], B Neck Rolling. Hit so often it's not funny. Next time mix it up with a Moon Slasher instead, or just go for Storm Bringer for LOLs

-I don't remember this being int he other KOFs, but if the opponent gets hit by a Cross Cutter (charge.b~f+P) projectile in the air, you can juggle with anything (normal, special or even (S)DM. Although I can't get the HSDM to connect). You can even do this in the corner: juggled.Cross Cutter, Moon Slasher, SC into Final Bringer for kicks.

EDITed: The mistake for the Storm Bringer bug, thanks Tel!
Last edited by Kane317 on Sat Mar 07, 2009 11:23, edited 5 times in total.

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Re: 2K2 UM - Heidern

Post by Bugle/Hawk'M » Sat Feb 28, 2009 20:49

Yeah the unblockable neck rolling is ridiculous. It connnects really low and early now too.

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Re: 2K2 UM - Heidern

Post by SonicTempest » Sat Feb 28, 2009 23:21

If I remember correctly d_u+K isn't actually unblockable but has the same properties of a throw move. I suppose it works out the same way in practice, though.

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Re: 2K2 UM - Heidern

Post by Fuu » Sun Mar 01, 2009 19:06

i think it won't hit airborne enemies now? quite a trade-off if you ask me.

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Re: 2K2 UM - Heidern

Post by Kane317 » Sun Mar 01, 2009 22:22

Fuu wrote:i think it won't hit airborne enemies now? quite a trade-off if you ask me.
Madness! It definitely hits airborne opponents!

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Re: 2K2 UM - Heidern

Post by Tel » Wed Mar 04, 2009 11:45

Eh? Did they change the Storm Bringer bug? Previously you had to whiff a Moon Slasher, then your next Storm/Final/Kill Bringer will do more damage.

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Re: 2K2 UM - Heidern

Post by Kane317 » Wed Mar 04, 2009 12:39

Tel wrote:Eh? Did they change the Storm Bringer bug? Previously you had to whiff a Moon Slasher, then your next Storm/Final/Kill Bringer will do more damage.
As mentioned above, it only benefits Storm Bringer now.

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Re: 2K2 UM - Heidern

Post by Tel » Wed Mar 04, 2009 14:31

Kane317 wrote:
Tel wrote:Eh? Did they change the Storm Bringer bug? Previously you had to whiff a Moon Slasher, then your next Storm/Final/Kill Bringer will do more damage.
As mentioned above, it only benefits Storm Bringer now.
No, I meant the way you got the bug out. Your post reported you have to whiff a Storm Bringer, then connect with another, whereas in 98UM you have to whiff a Moon Slasher.

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Re: 2K2 UM - Heidern

Post by Kane317 » Thu Mar 05, 2009 04:07

Tel wrote: No, I meant the way you got the bug out. Your post reported you have to whiff a Storm Bringer, then connect with another, whereas in 98UM you have to whiff a Moon Slasher.
Oh my misunderstanding, and you are right, I stand corrected. The mistake has been corrected and has been reflected above. :)

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Re: 2K2 UM - Heidern

Post by Tel » Thu Mar 05, 2009 05:02

No worries there. Interesting that the Neck Rolling is now unblockable. Can it still hit opponent in the air then?

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Re: 2K2 UM - Heidern

Post by Fuu » Thu Mar 05, 2009 10:44

It certainly doesn't in my game! I actually tested it in practice mode against a jumping opponent, and it works like Mary's Spider in 98 now.

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Re: 2K2 UM - Heidern

Post by Kane317 » Thu Mar 05, 2009 11:35

Fuu wrote:It certainly doesn't in my game! I actually tested it in practice mode against a jumping opponent, and it works like Mary's Spider in 98 now.
I hate you. You're the bearer of bad news, I just tested it again and you are right (I'm on a roll in this thread ain't I). Still a welcomed adjustment to his Neck Roller (charge.d~u+K) properties. I mean I've used it many times to hit an airborne opponent, but that's what Moon Slasher (charge.d~u+P) is for, and it's not like Moon Slasher isn't reliable. Furthermore, it just gives me more incentive to do Final Bringer (qcfx2+P DM).

Trade-off excepted! Compared to Mary's Spider, Chris' dp+P, O.Yash's spider grab the probability of connecting is still higher simply because the hit box for Neck Roller works on the way up as well. Try standing next to them, if you do the Neck Roller it goes straight to the grab frame, it doesn't even show him "flying" so to speak.

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Re: 2K2 UM - Heidern

Post by Fuu » Thu Mar 05, 2009 17:48

Yes it's hella fast, it pretty much goes into hit animation as soon as it gets near the enemy, which means immediately if you do it near enough. Still i dunno, to me it was more a move used scarcely to hit people out of predictable jumps, now it's a whole different beast. Not like i'm gonna play 2k2UM with people anytime soon, though, so yeah :|

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Re: 2K2 UM - Heidern

Post by Tel » Fri Mar 06, 2009 05:02

Well, it's a fair trade-off if you ask me. Heidern's Neck Roller was quite useless in 98 since it's slow and the priority is kinda poor to use as an anti-air, so it's only really useful when you know someone is tossing a fireball at frame disadvantage, which of course nobody does in a serious match. Plus the damned thing takes forever to recover if it's blocked. I'd rather it work like an anti-air the way you could back in 94/95, but if it's going to be at 98 speed, then making it unblockable makes it far more useful without actually being too abusive, since most people can spot it coming from a distance anyway.

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