:: orochinagi

Clark beats Ralf anyday. One word. Priority.

Ralf's optimum distance is a far C's length away. Clark's optimum distance is generally in your face (when he can use his godly priority). IMO, it's hard to really compare the two when it comes to priority because they excel at two different things at two different ranges.

Adel as Leader:

After KOing a character in the corner, do LDM on incoming character. A pseudo unblockable bug?

LDM hits as a cross up actually. If they tried jumping up, chances are that they will still get smacked to the wall.

So just block forward when your character is coming in....
But what if the Adel user decides not to use the LDM???

VERY weak sub boss no doubt. XD

Iie-Kyo wrote:

Clark beats Ralf anyday. One word. Priority.

Ralf's optimum distance is a far C's length away. Clark's optimum distance is generally in your face (when he can use his godly priority). IMO, it's hard to really compare the two when it comes to priority because they excel at two different things at two different ranges.

IMHO Ralf>Clark, here's the proof(borrows Emp's character attributes):
Combo ability: Clark
Stun value:Ralf
guard break/offense:Ralf/Clark(tied)
methods/patterns:Clark
QS ability:Ralf
Counter Attack:Ralf
Anti air:Ralf(omg stand C +kick,dcu+punch)
guard point:Tied
Reliance on power gauge:Clark
Guard crush potential:Ralf
Number of characters this character has an advantage over; when selected as leader:Clark
Ok it tallies to: Ralf 7 > Clark 6
So Ralf has a slight advantage when compared to Clark, therefore Ralf trully belongs to the A tier despite not being a leader. Clark is high B tier if not selected as a leader(just take off that advantage being a leader category and we have Ralf 7>Clark 5), make him a leader and he becomes a low A-mid A tier chracter. Anyone agrees??

I think Clark has better QS-bility, as for anti air, Clark definitely wins (jumpD is all he needs)

I still think Ralf is SLIGHTLY better than Clark though, both can do huge pressure in your face, but Ralf has better mid screen pressure thx to his stand/dwnC...but then again Clark has the insanely annoying frankensteiner

J]-[UN wrote:I think Clark has better QS-bility, as for anti air, Clark definitely wins (jumpD is all he needs)

I still think Ralf is SLIGHTLY better than Clark though, both can do huge pressure in your face, but Ralf has better mid screen pressure thx to his stand/dwnC...but then again Clark has the insanely annoying frankensteiner

Clark hasnt got a reliable anti air!Napalm stretch??Ash or any high prio aerial attacks in general can beat it at any given day!His jump d often trades hit with malins jump attacks,it even loses to maxima jump E.If you are talking about air to air/air-ground combat/priority,Clark is the better one ...What can clark do in terms of Qsability?? Ralf can QS after his +C,stand+C,Gattling attack,Gattling attack DM etc etc. The only reliable tool for Qsing for clark is his stand C+,fwd+B and gattling attack DM.Furthermore, Ralf's the more preferrable QSer out of the two(simple damaging combos),Clark relies more on the super bar/skill stock in order to deal high damaging QS combos.... Huh mid-screen pressuring with frankensteiner?? Frankensteiner is useless from that distance. Ralf is not as deadly as Clark up close... but his crouch A's is decent and SAB is still deadly.

Haihz

Clark has the fwdB overhead, dwnB/dwnA StandC you can QS out of, or you can simply dwnC, hcbx2 B then QS. Overall I think both kinda suck at starting QS chains but Clark is definitely better

I seem to beat Malin / Maxima in the air with Clark easily, when using Ralf I tend to stay more grounded

What I mean about his frankensteiner is...though Clark has weaker mid range pressure compared to Ralf, you can't rushdown Clark as easily as Ralf because of his frankensteiner

jump D from clark is still an uber reliable anti air.....can beat kula quite reliably out of some of her air attacks


clark can break momentum a lot better than ralf, although ralf does stun more and guard break more as well

Someone tell me (I mean I really don't know) why people consider Ralf's 2-3 character space priority better than Clark's?

I mean, yah, Ralf has stand C, but Clark's down C is *godly* this year. CvS2 Sagat godly. That thing even stuff hops consistently against the right characters (DL, for e.g.) so that you can d.C (counter)> Napalm Stretch, to anti-hop them.

Cos Ralf has the more than half screen range crC/CD --> dpA and Clark doesnt

UPDATED!
【SSS】牙刀
【SS】ｸｰﾗ
【S】ｵｽﾞ、影二、ｷﾑ、ｸﾗｰｸ
【A】ﾗﾙﾌ、ﾀﾞｯｸ、京、K'、ﾏｷｼﾏ、ｼﾞｪﾆｰ、ｱｯｼｭ、凱
【B】ﾃﾘｰ、ｼｪﾝ、まりん、ﾘｮｳ、庵、ﾃﾞｭｵﾛﾝ、ｹﾝｽｳ
【C】ﾕﾘ、紅丸、ｴﾘｻﾞ、邪頭、ｽﾞｨﾙﾊﾞｰ、ｱﾃﾞﾙ、香澄、ｳﾞｧﾈ
【D】ﾏﾘｰ、ｷﾝｸﾞ、真吾、桃子、ｸﾞﾘﾌｫﾝ、ﾗﾓﾝ
【E】疾風、ｳｲｯﾌﾟ、ｱﾃﾅ

What's with the S man? XD

Anyway, the point of this thread is not to update the tier list... it is actually to post this.

In arcade mode, damage is given a random +/- 4% difference discounting character stamina, guard meter, etc.

When you have about 40% life, scaling is at 75% of max damage. At 20% it is capped to 50%.

In arrange mode damage is given a random +/- n% difference! This means that it is possible to kill someone who has a full life bar YET you may be unable to kill the same character with the same combo if done on less than full lifebar.

edit: Apparently they can not confirm whether it is 9% difference or not for now... But the % difference is definitely bigger than in arcade mode.

Empyrian wrote:UPDATED!
【SSS】牙刀
【SS】ｸｰﾗ
【S】ｵｽﾞ、影二、ｷﾑ、ｸﾗｰｸ
【A】ﾗﾙﾌ、ﾀﾞｯｸ、京、K'、ﾏｷｼﾏ、ｼﾞｪﾆｰ、ｱｯｼｭ、凱
【B】ﾃﾘｰ、ｼｪﾝ、まりん、ﾘｮｳ、庵、ﾃﾞｭｵﾛﾝ、ｹﾝｽｳ
【C】ﾕﾘ、紅丸、ｴﾘｻﾞ、邪頭、ｽﾞｨﾙﾊﾞｰ、ｱﾃﾞﾙ、香澄、ｳﾞｧﾈ
【D】ﾏﾘｰ、ｷﾝｸﾞ、真吾、桃子、ｸﾞﾘﾌｫﾝ、ﾗﾓﾝ
【E】疾風、ｳｲｯﾌﾟ、ｱﾃﾅ

To translate...

SSS: Gato
SS: Kula
S: Oswald, Eiji, Kim, Clark
A: Ralf, Duck, Kyo, K', Maxima, Jenet, Ash, Gai
B: Terry, Shen, Malin, Ryo, Iori, Duolon, Kensou
C: Yuri, Benimaru, Elisabeth, Jyazu, Silber, Adelheid, Kasumi, Vanessa
Mary, King, Shingo, Momoko, Griffon, Ramon
E: Hayate, Whip, Athena

It has only taken 8 months but it is nice to see that people finally believe Athena is the worst in the game. Swap DL & Gai and then go on the premise that the S'es are a league above the rest. B&C are all very closely bunched and the others (bar Griffon who should still be booted up one) can not realistically compete.

Ash is overrated IMHO. Sure, he has no bad matches, but he's hardly amazing either. LDM is only really useful in combos, and his Thermidor is again a SC combo-only move He'd make a solid B tier character, but up there with Jenet, Duck, Ralf, K' and Kyo? I'd really like to hear why.

It's nice to know that Gai's getting the props he deserves, but I haven't seen a really good Gai player, so I'm not sure what puts him in the A-list, when he's got no special move that he can pull out on its own except for the dodge (unless you connected with his LDM).

That is what makes Ash so good, he is so solid. In any situation having Ash pop out isn't bad. He can hang with anyone and then work to get on top. It is actually this work that basically stops him from being any higher. The S's all have the ability to go into auto-pilot and still control the game.

Gato can go into Auto-Pilot at anytime and pretty much dominate since anything he does only helps him. The only situation the Gato needs to appraise the situation is after he has been knocked down. Has he actually been paying enough attention to be able to read the opponent and decide to kick DM or not on wakeup?

Kula can go AP crazy as well but can occasionally get hurt for doing it: silly dp+C's, smart guard cancel rolls. So her stuff doesn't always give her guaranteed advantage. And if she gets out played it usually means back-turned.

Once Oswald gets you into the corner then it is AP city, usually until either one of the characters (typically not the Oswald) is down. But outside the corner he only has the two major tools and they are not huge threats, it is easy to get you to the corner though if either lands. Eiji, Kim are the same. Clark has Auto-Pilot to a lesser degree but also has large amounts 'that's f'n bullsh!t' factor that is only matched by Gato and Oswald.

Ralf is Ralf and actually has a lot of boons in higher level player other than his BnB. Duck and Kyo's AP take more effort so that hurts. K' is Ash + unblockable stuff. Maxima is buff and can rely on both AP and smart play reading for big damage, Jenet has been lowered to a far more reasonable spot. And well Gai does have his f+D, but it does take effort to set up.

Basically explains why I still think DL should be higher as he is a lot of Auto Pilot as well. Personally I believe AP stops becoming a factor on that list once it reaches the Malin/Ryo area, probably after both.....

Hi, I've missed out on the other 11 pages but I'll catch up later. Question, what makes Kim so high up on the tier list. I mean Tier A maybe, but S? If I had to fight Oswald, Eiji, Clark or Kim to the death, I rather pick a Kim player. Someone please enlighten me.